LPG problems with Territory AWD - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > LPG Tech
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2005, 03:36   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
LPG problems with Territory AWD

I have an '04 Ford Territory AWD which I used for the first time 3 weeks ago to tow my caravan which weighs in at 2100kgs loaded, I did a return trip to Mildura and fuel consuption was 19.4 ltrs/100 at approx 85 kms/hr. With the current price of petrol I have booked in for LPG conversion by LPG1 which hopefully will make touring more affordable, trouble is that I am now advised by all of the " experts " that Territories on gas wind up bending con rods, damaging valves/guides and generally wreck engines. Unfortunately I am not too cluey re LPG conversions or modern engines and am now wondering if I am doing the right thing. LPG1 have a 2yr./50,000km warranty which they give with a gas conversion and that seems to imply much confidence by the installer, and that my " experts " may be poorly informed. Can anybody offer any comments/suggestions re the above query ?
Bill Swann is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-21-2005, 17:47   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 39
Posts: 64
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Wait til the Territory Turbo diesel comes out...... Then get economy and performance without losing any luggage space... The only problem with this is, it is still "unconfirmed"
Martyvan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 05:40   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 17
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

I've never heard of any LPG conversions causing the problems you mention. Maybe they're concerned about backfiring causing damage. Who are the "experts" you refer to. Are they Ford sales? When asked about an LPG option our guy in Albury said the engines simply run better on unleaded and there's no option.

I reckon its crappola. The ability of the ford 6 to handle LPG has been proven over the years with not only dedicated LPG setups but conversions handling mileage and weight.

Re: the backfiring I mentioned earlier, there was an aussie inventor on ABC's The New Inventors that developed a new injector that uses factory EFI module and settings to place LPG directly into the cylinder, not the plenum chamber as most conversions do. Anyone got any links to this product sounded awsome and the conversion made cheaper.

With poor range of the current fuel tank I'd love to see a solution of another tank opposite side of the car, or ability to put LPG tank where the spare wheel is. Now, where to put the spare wheel?
mb350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2005, 06:03   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 17
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Hi Bill,

Just reading your post again got me thinking. You've presumably travelled a fair distance from wherever home is to Mildura and back with the motor and transmission hauling over 4250kg (car and caravan combined). If that didn't cause serious damage, I doubt LPG would bend conrods.

As far as LPG damaging valves etc, I believe that was for Leaded engines. Conversions may come with a separate oil reservoir for upper cylinder lubrication.

Let us know how you get on. I haven't come across anybody with an LPG Terri.
mb350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 02:47   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Hi mb350, thanks a lot for your comments re the LPG conversion. The advice on engine damage re. bent con rods etc was from one of my motor mechanic customers and the Ford dealership service mgr. where I get my service work done, he suggested that I should use a different LPG installer, funnily enough the same one that he sends his conversions to! Incidently they use a system like you mentioned regards to injecting the gas into the cylinders via the injectors but they are $1200.00 dearer, LPG-1 come in at 2830.00
I tend to think the same as you inasmuch as Ford 6cyl's have converted without problems for a long time now.
My Territory performed unbelievably well with regards to towing my 'van, you would never have known you were towing 2200kgs.., it was that effortless. The fuel at 19kms/100 was reasonable compared with the 34.6/100 that we got on the journey up, albeit against a very stiff head wind. With petrol under a dollar a litre I probably would'nt consider going on to gas but at a $1.39/ltr country rate and I have got a 16000km. trip coming up I have got to try to lower the fuel cost and get a bit more range than the 75ltr tank gives me. The garage that is doing the conversion, LPGAS1, are very well regarded and well recommended as being one of the best.
Bill Swann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 22:54   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
xh98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MELBOURNE
Age: 50
Posts: 43
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Bill - You need to bear in mind though that fuel consumption actually increases considerably with lpg. The saving comes in the cost of lpg not the better fuel consumption. Also, power is reduced somewhat, which, given the weight of the vehicle (not to mention the additional weight of towing) could be a bad thing in a car that size. I have a BA wagon with dedicated lpg (Ford factory installation) which officially has worse economy than the petrol engine and has 27kw less power and about 30Nm less torque (which wouldn't be welcome in a vehicle that weighs over 2 tonnes). At a cost of nearly $3,000 to install it may take you at least 25,000 km just to break even.

Not suggesting not to do it - I would just suggest that you consider the increased consumption, reduced power, reduced space (due to spare tyre relocation) and calculate how long it will take to repay itself. Also bear in mind that if you're planning a long (country) trip that lpg may not be available everywhere.

'Wheels' ran a comparison test a year or so ago between the BA falcon petrol vs lpg model. They calculated that with the difference in fuel price, the additional cost of the lpg option (only $1,500) and the substantially reduced consumption that it would take about 20,000km to break even.

As for engine damage, I wouldn't be too worried about that. The motor is robust and has been converted for lpg over a long period of time without any known problems.

Good luck
xh98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2005, 23:06   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
atec77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 917
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Swann
I have an '04 Ford Territory AWD which I used for the first time 3 weeks ago to tow my caravan which weighs in at 2100kgs loaded, I did a return trip to Mildura and fuel consuption was 19.4 ltrs/100 at approx 85 kms/hr. With the current price of petrol I have booked in for LPG conversion by LPG1 which hopefully will make touring more affordable, trouble is that I am now advised by all of the " experts " that Territories on gas wind up bending con rods, damaging valves/guides and generally wreck engines. Unfortunately I am not too cluey re LPG conversions or modern engines and am now wondering if I am doing the right thing. LPG1 have a 2yr./50,000km warranty which they give with a gas conversion and that seems to imply much confidence by the installer, and that my " experts " may be poorly informed. Can anybody offer any comments/suggestions re the above query ?
I dont know who told you gas would damage the engine but I sugest you add a few grains of salt to his comments , that motor has done lots of service in other models on lpg without problems , lpg will use about 10% more fuel but depending on the conversion you will break even between some 20 and 30k... well worth installing , ps we run several I6 utes with big loads on lpg and the performance is excellent and bloody cheap
atec77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 04:33   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Many thanks for your information xh98 and atec77 re LPG for my Territory. I am now quite sold on the fact that I might have been fed a bit of bull re engine damage etc. and am now looking forward to getting my conversion done, once again thank you for all the good advice.
Bill Swann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 17:30   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
xh98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MELBOURNE
Age: 50
Posts: 43
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Actually Bill, I just read an article in the 'cars' section of the Herald Sun today about installing lpg on a Falcon. Apparently, the conrods have been known to bend due to backfiring, and the Ford dedicated lpg falcon has stronger conrods. The article suggested that you use a system that has direct gas injection not the traditional 'mixer bowl' to overcome the problem with backfiring.

Hope this helps.
xh98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2005, 18:59   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ballina NSW
Posts: 8
Re: LPG problems with Territory AWD

Not sure about this - but wasn't there some talk about the "excise" or tax content of lpg was going to increase shortly to bring it into line with petrol & diesel pricing?
I would have thought this would make it uneconomical to convert to lpg.
bigbobbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > LPG Tech



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:34.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.