Not really. There are plenty of big powered gas burners driving around that would put most cars to shame. There are benefits other than economy to be had with LPG like emissions and higher octane rating.
I donno bout you but id love to have nitrous hooked up on my daily driver!
Ive never heard of a nitrous LPG fuelled car though so i am also interested...
Actually, from what i've read its possible but won't run hard. The LPG and N20/Petrol does not mix properly and it runs like a POS.
LPG does not make power? Who are you kidding?
While it may not have the the naturally aspirated power potential of petrol (eventually its lower energy is going to catch up) it can make plenty of power. Throw on a super/turbo charger and LPG will blow your mind.... and be 100% street legal at the same time. If you want to do it with petrol you'd better add an extra $3000 to get it engineered.
My 351, in a state of tune that would make most petrol cars barely drivable, still makes 148rwkw.... plenty more to come once the timing and fuel mixutres are all setup properly. ESP is pushing over 165rwkw with a cam i'd rate as a baby.
All this with EPA immunity (a must if you want to do anything with an XD/XE) half the price of fuel and less toxic emmissions than a mazda 121. I love it!
Liquid gas injection is a pipe dream. I've never seen one working, never read of anyone selling a kit and aside from EA Turbo Clone's claim to have one working i've never even heard of an experimental system functioning.
The main problem is the temprature drop caused by the gas expanding. It might cool the engine but it'll freeze the injector solid in an instant... It passes through the tank lockoff at approx 15degrees C unexpanded on a warm day.... it drops to well below that, instantly, as it expands (-30degreesC if my memory serves me correctly). I'm sure it might happen eventually, but its a long way off.
Maybe theres some way to incorporate LPG vapour distribution into the throttlebody/carby?
If the temperature drop is the main problem then im positive there could be a way around this issue eg. heated injectors or whatever.
Still, with the bludy LPG excise and the growing price of it (i never thought id live to see 50c/litre LPG) market demand has dropped off significantly and there isnt any incentive for any development to continue.
The november issue of Street Machine has a short article in KB's Workshop about using nitrous on dedicated LPG systems, I'll give you the gyst of it after work.
I missed Novembers edition so I can't comment on that one.
Heated injectors won't help, the gas drops in temprature as it expands.... so the tip will still be exposed to the lowest temps and freeze up anyway. If you consider how many times an injector fires at 6000RPM it wouldn't take long to freeze it completely.
Your right about the excise. Stupidest thing i've heard in a long time. Its been pushed back once, lets hope they wake up.
While it may not have the the naturally aspirated power potential of petrol (eventually its lower energy is going to catch up) it can make plenty of power. Throw on a super/turbo charger and LPG will blow your mind.... and be 100% street legal at the same time. If you want to do it with petrol you'd better add an extra $3000 to get it engineered.
Sorry to go off the topic a bit, but why is it that you dont have to get it engineered if its on LPG? Does this apply to dual fuel cars too? Ive also been told that you are allowed to have open POD style air filters on cars on LPG, is this true?
Because the main emission of LPG is pretty much water, its considered (in most states) to have passed emissions without requiring testing.... The only thing most super/turbocharged cars need to get an engineers cert is an emissions test pass, therefore its dead easy to get it registered on LPG only as the test isn't required... and you save the $3000 an emissions test costs to have done (each time, hope you pass first time). LPG equipment to expensive now?
It DOES NOT apply to dual fuel cars, although they are permitted to run modified air cleaner assemblies to facilitate the LPG equipment.
LPG only systems are basically immune from EPA pollution requirements simply because they don't pollute. Most things that will attract an EPA fine are not applicable to LPG systems. Including but not limited to EGR equipment, catalytic converters, intake systems, charcoal canisters and all the other restrictive, ugly, useless crap that filled the engine bays of cars built after '76. Personally, i'd not bother trying to get a hi-po V8 100% street legal on petrol in and XD/XE, you'd spend a fortune and have to de-tune it heaps just to pass, then when you crank it back up your straight back to illigal again.
xdc351 The only thing most super/turbocharged cars need to get an engineers cert is an emissions test pass, therefore its dead easy to get it registered on LPG only as the test isn't required...
I wish it was so... Unfortunately ANY addition of forced induction requires a engineers cert regardelss of fuel type used. Wish i was wrong but i checked recently.
YES this is posible, going to have a setup on my 302w that is going into my EA. The 302w has GT40 heads, edelbrock single plane hi-rise, ported 425cfm to 550cmf a bit small but the biggest I can go before having to run twins or "Gas Reserch" , ACL pistons 11.0:1, shotpeened rods, striaght cut timing gears, crow cam with roller bearings, roller rockers all balanced, few other goodies. It was put on the engine dyno last week but only run a Holly and cracked a ring land due to detanation so the engine builder has found me a new block and is starting again on his cost. The setup that we have concocted is running a 15ltr fuel cell in the boot that should only need one fill to the bottle with a Holly Blue fuel pump (wet manifold) with a plate setup sandwiched between the mixer and the manifold only with a 50-75hp shot. When tunning the N2O you only have to change the fuel pills (jets) to get the N20/Fuel ratio. Who ever tells u LPG dont make power hit them. The only reson people think this is becasue there had not been much research done in the proformance seen. I used to own a VL Falcadore with a 355 running "Gas Reserch" made more power than the same engine apart from cam than its injected counterpart. There could be something similar to this done with a I6 or similar.
YES this is posible, going to have a setup on my 302w that is going into my EA. The 302w has GT40 heads, edelbrock single plane hi-rise, ported 425cfm to 550cmf a bit small but the biggest I can go before having to run twins or "Gas Reserch" , ACL pistons 11.0:1, shotpeened rods, striaght cut timing gears, crow cam with roller bearings, roller rockers all balanced, few other goodies. It was put on the engine dyno last week but only run a Holly and cracked a ring land due to detanation so the engine builder has found me a new block and is starting again on his cost. The setup that we have concocted is running a 15ltr fuel cell in the boot that should only need one fill to the bottle with a Holly Blue fuel pump (wet manifold) with a plate setup sandwiched between the mixer and the manifold only with a 50-75hp shot. When tunning the N2O you only have to change the fuel pills (jets) to get the N20/Fuel ratio. Who ever tells u LPG dont make power hit them. The only reson people think this is becasue there had not been much research done in the proformance seen. I used to own a VL Falcadore with a 355 running "Gas Reserch" made more power than the same engine apart from cam than its injected counterpart. There could be something similar to this done with a I6 or similar.
There is also a supercharged Toyota Soara that run a blown V8 running Gas(to intercool)/Methanol/98ron petrol. It runs on just petrol up to a set RPM then the gas kicks in at the same time as the petrol then at another set RPM the methanol kick in to act as another source of cooling.
Damn that sounds like some high tech intercooling!
Thanks for all the other info guys.
But lets try to not make this another LPG vs. Petrol thread. We all know they both have their advantages and disadvantages, and anyone who thinks LPG is crap, yep cool whatever thats nice.
So are there any other cars out there running straight LPG with a shot of N20?
Or how about a big turbo, straight gas, running a shot off the line to help spool? That would be really quite special. I'd love to see it.
xdc351 The only thing most super/turbocharged cars need to get an engineers cert is an emissions test pass, therefore its dead easy to get it registered on LPG only as the test isn't required...
I wish it was so... Unfortunately ANY addition of forced induction requires a engineers cert regardelss of fuel type used. Wish i was wrong but i checked recently.
Yes that is correct. As I stated the main part of the engineers cert is the emissions test. On straight LPG an emissions test is not required, so the engineers cert is easy and cheap to obtain.
Yes that is correct. As I stated the main part of the engineers cert is the emissions test. On straight LPG an emissions test is not required, so the engineers cert is easy and cheap to obtain.
Yea i didnt realise it was a pay-by-the-hour thing, i assumed it was just a one off fee.
My bad.
I heard that EAs might be easy to engineer for turbo as well since this AIT EAs came outwith em factory backed.
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