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Old 02-10-2010, 10:09   #1 (permalink)
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Reduced Heater Duct Discharge Temperature At Idle

We just picked up an 09 Flex and are currently dealing with Jubilee ford in Saskatoon, and in contact with Ford Canada who informed us the engineers are aware and working on a fix. It Hits -40 Celsius + at times in Saskatchewan, and we have a little girl as well. We recently picked up an 09 Flex to discover the same problem NO HEAT AT IDLE. So far we have used 2 loaners from the dealer, both Flex's and both with the same problem..

We won't be letting this go until it is resolved to our satisfaction. Jubilee in all fairness has so far been awesome to deal with and want a fix as much as I do. Unfortunately it is up to the engineers at Ford to supply a fix. Who knows when, but it might be a good time for them to get it together and fix it, with all the recalls currently going on (ie-Toyota) I think about 9 million vehicles currently recalled, though Ford holds the record for recalls at about 14 million some years back... Hard to believe they have been making cars for 100 years heh, lol.

The more people we can get to complain to Ford about this defect in the design the better!

Here is the original TSB (There is a new TSB out on this forget the #)

TSB
09-10-1 3.5L REDUCED HEATER DUCT DISCHARGE TEMPERATURE AT IDLE - BUILT BEFORE 1/19/2009

Publication Date: May 7, 2009

FORD: 2009 Flex


ISSUE:
Some 2009 Flex vehicles built before 1/19/2009 may exhibit a customer concern of reduced heater duct discharge temperature when the vehicle engine is brought down to an idle speed.

ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Heater Performance Verification Test

Drive vehicle minimum 20 minutes.
Ensure that the thermostat is open by checking for heat at the upper radiator hose. If the thermostat is not open continue to drive.
Set the front climate temperature control to 90 °F (32 °C) and turn off the auxiliary climate control.
Set the mode to panel/vent and A/C switched off. Do not set to recirculation mode.
Set the blower to highest speed, open all panel vents.
Idle the engine for additional 20 minutes at an ambient of 60 °F (15.5°C) or above with the hood down.
The left center vent discharge air temperature should be a minimum of 137 °F (58 °C) at 60 °F (32 °C) ambient.
If the heater performance meets the minimum 137 °F (58 °C) criteria, stop with this procedure and proceed to the Workshop Manual (WSM), Section: 412-Climate Control System Diagnostics and Testing.
If the heater performance does not meet the minimum 137 °F (58 °C) criteria, then proceed to Cooling System Flush.
Flushing Equipment Fabrication

Prior to starting the service flush procedure prepare the fresh water supply hose and the drain hose. Obtain two (2) hose coupling adapters, six (6) number 12 hose clamps and one (1) garden hose (obtain locally). The garden hose can be either a 5/8" (16 mm) or 3/4" (19 mm). The couplings can be 5/8" (16 mm) x 3/4" (19 mm) or 3/4" (19 mm) x 3/4" (19 mm) depending on the size garden hose used. The vehicle hose and thermostat port are 3/4" (19 mm) in size. (Figure 1)


Figure 1 - Article 09-10-1


Using a coupling adapter and hose clamps, Cut the garden hose to length (One end of the hose must reach from the vehicle to a fresh water supply faucet and the drain hose end should be long enough to drain the engine away from the vehicle) and attach a 2' (61 cm) length of heater hose to the garden hose to be used as the fresh water supply. The heater hose will prevent kinking at the tight area of the engine compartment. (Figure 2)


Figure 2 - Article 09-10-1


Using a coupling adapter and hose clamps, attach a 2' (61 cm) length of heater hose to the remaining section of garden hose to be used as the drain hose. The heater hose will prevent kinking at the tight area of the engine compartment. (Figure 3)


Figure 3 - Article 09-10-1


Cooling System Flush

NOTE: DISPOSE OF OLD COOLANT AND FLUSHING WATER CONTAMINATED WITH ANTIFREEZE AND CLEANING CHEMICALS IN ACCORDANCE WITH LOCAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAWS.



Drain the cooling system. Refer to WSM Section 303-03. Leave the draincock open and splash shield off.
Remove the air cleaner assembly. Refer to WSM Section 303-12
Disconnect the heater core outlet hose (Item 4) and the heater core inlet hose (Item 5) from the thermostat housing and position them aside. (Figure 4)


Figure 4 - Article 09-10-1


Item Description
1 Vent hose
2 Lower radiator hose
3 Upper radiator hose
4 Heater core outlet hose OB
5 Heater core inlet hose IB
6 Thermostat housing bolt (3 required)
7 O-ring seal
8 O-ring seal
9 Thermostat housing
10 Heater return port


Install a pinch off plier (Rotunda tool SKT7603 or equivalent to the rear heater core inlet hose (Item 5, Figure 4) just below the inlet tee fitting. Do not remove pinch off pliers until after the rear heater core has been flushed.
Connect the fresh water supply hose to the heater outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4).
Attach a drain hose to the heater inlet hose (Item 5, Figure 4) to prevent coolant from splashing and staining the engine compartment.
Back flush the front heater core through the heater outlet with tap water until water is clear approximately 4 gallons (15 L).
Disconnect the rear heater core inlet hose at the rear of the vehicle. (Figure 5)


Figure 5 - Article 09-10-1


Install pinch off pliers to the drain hose (Item 5 Figure 4).
Position drain pan underneath rear heater core.
Turn on the water supply and back flush front and rear heater cores with tap water until approximately 2 gallons (7.6 L) have filled the drain pan.
Remove pinch off pliers from rear heater core inlet hose (Item 5, Figure 4) and install on the rear heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4) just below the outlet tee fitting.
Back flush the underbody metal heater inlet line with tap water until water is clear.
Connect the rear heater core inlet hose.
Remove pinch off pliers from drain hose and pinch off rear heater core inlet hose (Item 5, Figure 4). Leave heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4) pinched off.
Disconnect the drain hose and reconnect heater core inlet hose to thermostat housing.
Connect the garden drain hose to the heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4). This will be used to allow the engine to drain away from the engine compartment.
Connect the fresh water supply hose to the heater return port (Item 10, Figure 4) on the thermostat housing. (Figure 4)
Install the air cleaner assembly. It is not necessary to install the bolts; air cleaner will be removed again. It is important to install the air cleaner assembly to prevent stalling the engine. Make sure that the two air cleaner feet are seated into the rubber grommets under the air cleaner assembly. The air cleaner outlet pipe should be securely sealed to prevent unmetered air from entering the engine.
CAUTION: THE UPPER RADIATOR HOSE MUST BE PROPERLY POSITIONED BELOW THE LOCATING BRACKET ON THE COOLING FAN SHROUD AS SHOWN. FAILURE TO PROPERLY POSITION THE HOSE COULD RESULT IN ENGINE OVERHEATING. (FIGURE 7)





Figure 6 - Article 09-10-1



Install and configure the Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) scan tool to monitor and activate the engine RPM number and High Speed Cooling Fan FAN_CTRL.
Enter the vehicle information and then select the datalogger tab and the check tick icon from the toolbox menu.
Select powertrain from data logger menu then select engine, check tick icon.
Select the eraser Icon and then the check tick icon to clear all selections.
Select to highlight both the FAN_CTRL number and the RPM number buttons.
Select the check tick icon to display the FAN_CTRL number and the RPM number pids.
Turn on the fresh water supply. Allow the degas bottle to fill to the max cold fill range then tighten the cap to prevent overflowing (radiator drain valve should still be open).
Start the engine.
Using active command on the IDS, set the engine RPM to 2000 RPM.
Highlight the RPM display, and then select the number icon.
Select the button icon below the number icon to activate control of RPM.
Press the plus icon below the button icon to increase the RPM speed.
NOTE: It is important to exit IDS active command by using the eraser button on the IDS to prevent engine stalling.



Run the engine for (2) minutes (radiator drain valve should still be open, pressure cap installed, and coolant draining from the heater core outlet drain hose). It may be necessary to adjust the fresh water supply flow rate and crack the degas bottle cap periodically to ensure the system remains full of fluid throughout the procedure.
Return the engine to normal idle by selecting the eraser button on the IDS.
Stop the engine and turn off the fresh water supply.
Slowly remove the degas bottle cap.
Allow system to drain through the radiator drain valve.
Remove the air cleaner assembly.
Remove pinch off pliers from both rear heater core hoses.
Disconnect flush hoses from the heater return port and heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4).
Reconnect the heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4) to the thermostat return port.
Install air cleaner assembly. It is not necessary to install the bolts, air cleaner will be removed again.
Once the radiator is completely drained, close the radiator drain valve. The Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning (HVAC) blower motor must be turned off to make sure the thermostat opens. The high speed fan active command must be off to make sure the thermostat opens.
Add one (1) 22 fluid oz. bottle of Motorcraft® Premium Cooling System Flush to the degas bottle. (Do not use Ford Neutral pH Iron Cleaner, F8AZ-19A503-AA, or Motorcraft Engine Cooling System Iron Cleaner as these products are for rust removal).
Add fresh water to the degas bottle until the water reaches the maximum cold fill range. Follow WSM, Section 303-03 filling procedures.
Start the engine and let idle with the degas cap off for (2) minutes to allow trapped air in the engine to escape.
Stop the engine and wait for (1) minute to make sure air is purged from the radiator.
Add additional water to the bottle if required to bring the volume up to the maximum cold fill level.
Bleed air from the cooling system using the following procedure.
Close the degas bottle cap.
Start the engine and let idle until the engine reaches normal operating temperature and the thermostat is fully open. A fully open thermostat can be verified by the radiator fan cycling on at least once.
Turn the engine off for 1 minute.
Run the engine at a minimum of 3500 RPM for 30 seconds.
Run the engine at idle for 30 seconds.
Repeat steps 3-5 a total of 10 times.
CAUTION: THE FLUSHING SOLUTION CONTAINS NO GLYCOL, THE SYSTEM WILL BOIL BEFORE THE FANS TURN ON IF THE PRESSURE CAP IS NOT FITTED CORRECTLY.



Remove the air cleaner assembly.
Install pinch off pliers on rear heater inlet (Item 5, Figure 4) and rear heater outlet hoses. (Item 4, Figure 4)
Install air cleaner assembly. It is not necessary to install the bolts, air cleaner will be removed again.
Start engine
Using active command with IDS set the engine RPM to 2000 RPM.
Run the engine for (5) minutes at 2000 RPM to and allow the thermostat to open.
WARNING: IF THE ENGINE OVERHEATS OR THE FLUID LEVEL DROPS BELOW THE MINIMUM FILL LINE, SHUTOFF THE ENGINE AND ADD FLUID TO THE DEGAS BOTTLE MAXIMUM FILL LINE ONCE THE ENGINE COOLS. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE. WARNING ALWAYS ALLOW THE ENGINE TO COOL BEFORE OPENING THE COOLING SYSTEM. DO NOT UNSCREW THE COOLANT PRESSURE RELIEF CAP WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING OR THE COOLING SYSTEM IS HOT. THE COOLING SYSTEM IS UNDER PRESSURE; STEAM AND HOT LIQUID CAN COME OUT FORCEFULLY WHEN THE CAP IS LOOSENED SLIGHTLY.



Return the engine to normal idle by using the eraser button on the IDS.
Stop the engine.
Remove the air cleaner assembly.
Remove pinch off pliers from both rear heater core hoses.
Install air cleaner assembly. It is not necessary to install the bolts, air cleaner will be removed again.
Key on engine off.
Using active command with IDS turn on the high speed cooling fan.
With the ignition key on and the engine off highlight the FAN_CTRL number display.
Enter IDS active command by selecting the number icon.
Select the button icon below the number icon to activate control of the cooling fan.
Press the plus icon below the button icon to turn on the cooling fan.
Wait 5 minutes with high speed fan running before continuing to next step.
Turn off the high speed fan by selecting the eraser button on the IDS. Turn off the ignition key.
Slowly remove the degas bottle cap and top off the degas bottle with tap water.
Start the engine and let Idle with the degas cap off for two (2) minutes to allow trapped air in the engine to escape.
Stop the engine and wait for (1) minute to make sure air is purged from the radiator.
Add additional water to the bottle if required to bring the volume up to the maximum cold fill level.
Install the degas bottle pressure cap.
Start engine.
Using active command with IDS set the engine RPM to 2000 RPM.
Run the engine for ten (10) minutes at 2000 RPM to and allow the thermostat to open.
WARNING: IF THE ENGINE OVERHEATS OR THE FLUID LEVEL DROPS BELOW THE MINIMUM FILL LINE, SHUTOFF THE ENGINE AND ADD FLUID TO THE DEGAS BOTTLE MAXIMUM FILL LINE ONCE THE ENGINE COOLS. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE. ALWAYS ALLOW THE ENGINE TO COOL BEFORE OPENING THE COOLING SYSTEM. DO NOT UNSCREW THE COOLANT PRESSURE RELIEF CAP WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING OR THE COOLING SYSTEM IS HOT. THE COOLING SYSTEM IS UNDER PRESSURE; STEAM AND HOT LIQUID CAN COME OUT FORCEFULLY WHEN THE CAP IS LOOSENED SLIGHTLY.



Return the engine to normal idle by using the eraser button on the IDS.
Stop the engine.
Key on engine off.
Using active command with IDS, turn on the high speed cooling fan.
With the ignition Key on and the engine off highlight the FAN_CTRL number display.
Enter IDS active command by selecting the number icon.
Select the button icon below the number icon to activate control of the cooling fan.
Press the plus icon below the button icon to turn on the cooling fan.
Wait five (5) minutes with high speed fan running before continuing to next step.
Turn off the high speed fan by selecting the eraser button on the IDS. Turn off the ignition key.
Slowly remove the degas bottle cap and rinse with fresh water to clean the Motorcraft® Premium Cooling System Flush off of the cap.
Open the radiator drain valve and allow the system to completely drain.
Remove the air cleaner assembly to gain access to thermostat housing and disconnect the heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4).
Attach the drain hose to the heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4) and the fresh water supply hose to the heater return port on the thermostat housing.
Install air cleaner assembly. It is not necessary to install the bolts, air cleaner will be removed again.
Turn on the fresh water supply. Allow the degas bottle to fill to the maximum cold fill range then install the degas bottle cap. Tighten the cap to prevent overflowing (radiator drain valve should still be open).
Start the engine and let idle for two (2) minutes to allow trapped air in the engine to escape.
Stop the engine and wait for one (1) minute to make sure air is purged from the radiator.
Add additional water to the bottle if required to bring the volume up to the maximum cold fill level.
Install the degas bottle pressure cap.
Using active command with IDS set the engine RPM to 2000 RPM.
Run the engine for five (5) minutes at 2000 RPM. (radiator drain valve should still be open, pressure cap installed, and coolant draining from the heater core outlet drain hose). It may be necessary to adjust the fresh water supply flow rate and crack the degas bottle cap periodically to ensure the system remains full of fluid throughout the procedure.
Stop the engine and turn off the fresh water supply.
Slowly remove the degas bottle cap.
Allow system to drain through the radiator drain valve.
Remove the air cleaner assembly.
Disconnect flush hoses from the heater return port and heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4).
Connect the heater core outlet hose (Item 4, Figure 4) to the thermostat return port.
Install the air cleaner assembly. Refer to WSM Section 303-12.
Run fresh water through the degas bottle to remove residual Motorcraft® Premium Cooling System Flush.
Once the radiator is completely drained, close the radiator drain valve and install the splash shield. The engine at this stage is filled with pure water. The engine holds approximately 50% of the cooling system capacity.
Add 5.8 qts. (5.5 L) for base models and 6.3 qts. (6.0L) for trailer tow models (has oil cooler) of 100% pure concentrate coolant, Motorcraft® Premium Gold Engine Coolant with Bittering Agent, to the cooling system.
Top off the degas bottle to 1" (25 mm) above the top of the cold fill range with fresh water.
Bleed air from the cooling system using the following procedure.
Close the degas bottle cap.
Turn the HVAC system to off.
Start the engine and let idle until the engine reaches normal operating temperature and the thermostat is fully open. A fully open thermostat can be verified by the radiator fan cycling on at least once.
Turn the engine off for one (1) minute.
Run the engine at a minimum of 3500 RPM for 30 seconds.
Run the engine at idle for 30 seconds. If the engine overheats or the fluid level drops below the top of the cold fill range, shut off the engine and add fluid to 1" (25 mm) above the top of the cold fill range once the engine cools.
Repeat steps 4-6 a total of 10 times.
WARNING: ALWAYS ALLOW THE ENGINE TO COOL BEFORE OPENING THE COOLING SYSTEM. DO NOT UNSCREW THE COOLANT PRESSURE RELIEF CAP WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING OR THE COOLING SYSTEM IS HOT. THE COOLING SYSTEM IS UNDER PRESSURE; STEAM AND HOT LIQUID CAN COME OUT FORCEFULLY WHEN THE CAP IS LOOSENED SLIGHTLY.



Check the engine coolant level in the degas bottle and fill to 1" (25 mm) above the top of the cold fill range when warm or to the top of the cold fill range line when cold.
Install the degas bottle cap to at least one audible click.
Perform Heater Performance Verification Test.
If heater performance is restored to the minimum 137 °F (58 °C) criteria return the vehicle to the customer.
If heater performance is not restored to the minimum 137 °F (58 °C) after the cooling system flush, replace the front heater core. Refer to WSM, Section 412-01 for removal and installation.

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Old 12-07-2010, 12:24   #2 (permalink)
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The Unsupported - No Heat at Idle Fix

Well what can I say the problem has been fixed and the problem was indeed water flow. Through my frustration with ford, I began my research over a year ago. I recently came across another forum where a user posted a fix to his no heat at idle problem in his 2009 ford flex.

I convinced my dealer ship to give this individuals dealership a call and find out what the fix is. Dealership order the parts and arrange to fix my vehicle.

After picking up the vehcile I proceeded to drive around and every time I stopped at a light I had amazing heat (finally). A big thanks goes out to my dealership.

Here are the details that I can provide in case their are others that can convince their dealers to eat the cost of a $1000.00 plus job as FORD of Canada will not cover the cost to fix their own vehicles which are still on warranty.

SHAME ON FORD!!

What was done was the installation of an electric auxiliary water pump to assist with the water flow into the heater core.

PARTS NEEDED:

QTY PARTS # Description
---------------------------------------------------
1 PW-474 Pump Asy - WAT
1 YL3Z-19G390-AA Relay
3 YF-3263 CLAMP HOSE
8 1400E Heat CONN
2 LZAT0-15 Fuse

The exact installation procedures are beyond me but perhaps other dealerships can piece together what was done with the parts listed above.

Temperature reading where taken by the technician after the repair and temp reading were 140F while driving and 135F at idle. Reading were also taken after the vehicle had been siting in -20C weather for 10 minutes and reading were still at 135F from the center vents. This is far better than the -10C I had blowing into the cabin all last winter.

Again a big thanks go out to Ricko from another forum, his dealer ship and of course My Dealership.


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Old 12-07-2010, 14:55   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Reduced Heater Duct Discharge Temperature At Idle

Thanks for that information.
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Old 01-09-2011, 16:14   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Reduced Heater Duct Discharge Temperature At Idle

I have a 2007 ford mustang pony package w. V6 engine, 60K kms in Winnipeg, MB. Now on my 3rd winter with the car, and it just recently stopped putting out heat at idle. I have found that cycling the temperature control open/closed will sometimes help (going from blue to red on the dial, cycling the valve), however overall it is blowing cold air at idle. This sounds like a very similar problem as with the Ford Flex, related to clogging in the system.

If I go in and ask for a system flush at the dealership, should this fix the problem based on your experience.

Thanks
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Old 01-09-2011, 16:29   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Reduced Heater Duct Discharge Temperature At Idle

We if you are so dead set against a Ford Product...then why the Hell do you OWN one. Typical Canadian Whiner.
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