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180rwkw from N/A barra 4.0, easy done!!

75K views 67 replies 23 participants last post by  Evilxd 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#27 ·
xr6 ute said:
half a second is bugger all. You could loose that time easily. It could have been a hot day, high or low humidity, wheel spin, shit tyres, bad fuel, gearbox slip(manual or auto), shit driver with bad reaction time, water or oil on track, etc etc. Rwkw's is not directly preportional to quarter mile times.
No, rwkw is not directly related to the time but it is related VERY closely to thr MPH. As I said, unless every single pass was muffed it doesnt add up. 92mph is not 180rwkw.
Oh, and reaction time is not counted in the ET. My reaction time on my pass was over 3 seconds.
 
#33 ·
Here is a link to my thread which has more details about the mods I had done, and also a couple of pics I took this morning, just FYI.

http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=88347

To answer the question re fuel consumption: the harder you drive it, the more you use. Simple. And with new mods, its hard not to drive it harder, around town and therefore use more fuel. Especially when the harder you push it, the nicer it sounds...

However, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, the fuel economy is rather improved from what I can tell so far. On the way over to Melbourne from Adelaide I avereaged around 12.1 L per 100km. On the way back I got 9.8. Now obviously there may have been differences in my driving on both trips so its not identical. But it was not substantially different either way. I stopped once, in Horsham, both ways. I sat on between 100 and 130kmh the entire way except for towns. Traffic was similar both ways. So thats the info on fuel economy I have so far. Have not taken much notice around town yet, I'll wait for the next tank.

Re the rwkw, I find it very difficult to believe that with just exhaust mods and a chip on a BA 6 you could get it to 180rwkw, which is similar to XR6T rw power. Without doing cams and other stuff, I just cannot see it. And at the end of the day, you would feel it if it was. I have driven enough XR6Ts (manual and auto) enough to know what that kind of power feels like.

And the Nm issue is not that clear cut either. Before my exhaust mods, the dyno gave an ESTIMATE of a tiny bit under 400Nm. Now with the exhaust mods, I am not sure since I have not had the Nm measured, and on a dyno it is only an estimate anyway. However, if the dyno was correct with 180rwkw, I am wondering what it would show re Nm, if it is measured... would it show THAT far off 450Nm of an XR6T?

In any case, despite mine showing as 182rwkw on one dyno, and despite the fact it does feel and sound much better, it does not feel anything like a stock XR6T and that is a fact. I know the difference well and no one can convince me that its what it feels like, even Nm aside. What it does have is a much better pull in higher revs than before, more power across the board and a really nice sound to it. Not too loud, does not drone inside and it doesnt sound cheap and tacky.

My opinion re the rwkw/dyno issue is pretty much what Casper and others have said. The only issue I have with it is as CSV said in that it could very well be false and misleading conduct in the course of carrying on trade or commerce under the Trade Practices legislation, but since they never claim the figure is NOT from their dyno, it is probably difficult to argue that, technically. I do think it is misleading however, as in a practical situation, people would expect that figure on all dynos, and therefore expect relative performance on a track....

Aside from that, if you want such mods done, go into it with your eyes open, with realistic expectations of the results you will get, with some research under your belt and with an attitude that is less focussed on the rwkw/dyno figure than the actual performance and feel of the mods themselves.

Any dyno can be set to tell you your Focus has 200rwkw, if the users so choose to. But that doesnt count. If it does not go relatively that fast on a track, then the figures are pointless. The dyno means nothing when it comes to how it feels and the fun you can have with it.

Just be realistic and enjoy what you have.... as long as it beats Commies, and you get a decent track time (which any 14.xx in a NA BA 6 is IMO - I would be happy to get that time two weeks from now) then its all good, right?
 
#34 ·
I have 152rwkw with a 95mph and 14.6 1.4 mile. Theres no way a 180rwkw XR6 would do a 14.9 1/4 with only a 92mph. Not a chance!
 
#35 · (Edited by Moderator)
Why is it, that people can't believe that with a few changes, the BA 6cylinder can't possibly come from 140rwkw(standard) to 180rwkws? The cold air on standard cars is small and restrictive, the air filters are thick cardboard crap which is impossible to get free-flowing air through, the zorst are small and have 20 mufflers, resonators catalytic converters(only designed for zero emissions), and computer that detunes the engine for maximum life span and best fuel economy.

It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer. Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.

And I'm sure in time, we will all see the chip, cam, and exhaust packages for all the ford motors which will considerably increase the power.

Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent on it, it has on increased the engine's power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has a girl take the shit back!
 
#36 ·
xr6 ute said:
Why is it, that people cant believe that with a few changes, the BA 6cylinder cant possibly come from 140rwkw(standard) to 180rwkws? The cold air on standard cars is small and restrictive, the air filters are thick cardboard crap which are impossible to get free flowing air through, the zorst are small and have 20 muflers, resonators catylitic converters(only designed for zero emissions), and a computer that detunes the engine for maximum life spand and best fuel economy. It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer. Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.
And i'm sure in time, we will all see chip, cam, and exhaust packages for all the ford motors which will considerable increase the power.
Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent it, it has on increased the engines power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has girl take the shit back!
Sorry to be a smart ass but FPV make the Boss 260 a Boss 290 by upping the c/p ratio, bigger cams, different valvetrain and i think filter and zorst like you said.
 
#37 ·
xr6 ute said:
how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer.
You forgot to add different Camshafts and higher compression Pistons. You might want to think before you speak.
 
#38 ·
xr6 ute said:
Why is it, that people cant believe that with a few changes, the BA 6cylinder cant possibly come from 140rwkw(standard) to 180rwkws? The cold air on standard cars is small and restrictive, the air filters are thick cardboard crap which are impossible to get free flowing air through, the zorst are small and have 20 muflers, resonators catylitic converters(only designed for zero emissions), and a computer that detunes the engine for maximum life spand and best fuel economy. It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer. Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.
And i'm sure in time, we will all see chip, cam, and exhaust packages for all the ford motors which will considerable increase the power.
Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent it, it has on increased the engines power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has girl take the shit back!
Oh dear..... :rofl:

Gee, no, I spent ALL that massive amount of money and I expected to get the same rwkw as an XR6T - yes of course. How stupid am I? I have no idea how Ive wasted my money. And having said above that I have driven many XR6Ts, both manual and auto, you think for one second I wouldnt be able to tell the difference between 180rwkw and 158rwkw? ROFL Why, do you think, did I take it back to get dynod the day after it was done? Geesh.

If you think you can get 180rwkw out of THOSE mods, then youre dreamin buddy. Id like to see you find someone who can get that rw power out of any BA NA 6 with those mods... coz Ill be there.

And who told you a BA exhaust is particularly restrictive? Have you seen a stock one? Bwahahahahahahahaha
 
#39 ·
xr6 ute said:
Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.

XRQTOR said:
Sorry to be a smart ass but FPV make the Boss 260 a Boss 290 by upping the c/p ratio, bigger cams, different valvetrain and i think filter and zorst like you said.
Likewise the VX GTS over the VX SS........GTS has a different Cam and different Heads.

What does a stock BA XR6 do the quarter in? taking into account...their weight?
 
#40 ·
xr6 ute said:
the zorst are small and have 20 muflers, resonators catylitic converters(only designed for zero emissions)
The standard exhaust is actually quite well flowing nothing much wrong with it at all just a bit quiet IMO :p

xr6 ute said:
and a computer that detunes the engine for maximum life spand and best fuel economy.
Best fuel economy when running an AFR at arount 10-11 bwahahaha seeing stoitchemetric balance is at 14.7

xr6 ute said:
It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer.
As others have said different valvetrain, cams, C/R and XR8's and GT's actually run the same Intake and Exhaust systems...

xr6 ute said:
Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.
The 300kW motor is modified extensively internally by callaway in the US and then shipped to HSV
 
#42 ·
xr6 ute said:
Why is it, that people cant believe that with a few changes, the BA 6cylinder cant possibly come from 140rwkw(standard) to 180rwkws? The cold air on standard cars is small and restrictive, the air filters are thick cardboard crap which are impossible to get free flowing air through, the zorst are small and have 20 muflers, resonators catylitic converters(only designed for zero emissions), and a computer that detunes the engine for maximum life spand and best fuel economy. It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer. Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.
And i'm sure in time, we will all see chip, cam, and exhaust packages for all the ford motors which will considerable increase the power.
Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent it, it has on increased the engines power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has girl take the shit back!
I would also query something. You compare the two boss engines, with and increase from 260 to 290. These are in FWkw. Also the same with the HSVs - the difference between the SS and the GTS is 65 FWkw.... My gain of 20 is in RWkw.... so if you translate that to FWkw as you have done comparing the others, I am estimating that would be somewhere around 25 to 30FWkw.... which is close to the gain made between XR8 and GT as you have stated.

So to compare apples with apples, I am not seeing a massive problem here with 25-30FWkw gain with just a chip and exhaust...

So you are saying a 40RWkw gain is reasonable? That takes it from a 182FWkw car to around 230FWkw.....with chip and exhaust? I dont think so. From memory, with the XR6T and APS stage 1 including boost increases, Im pretty sure there is only a relatively small gain of a bit more than 30rwkw.... takes it to around 280 - 290fwkw (I think).
 
#43 · (Edited by Moderator)
XRChic....congratulations on your mods and increased output.As long as you are enjoying the benefits of what you got ,figures don't really mean all that much.As for numbers...well personally I have no respect for them.

I had raced ss vu commodores when the dev4 was running and believe me they could not get away.The dev 4 was had 150 rwkws and the look of frustration said it all from them.They claim ridiculous amounts ,but what counts is real world.

If you get better fuel economy and the feeling that the car goes well ,thats what counts.
 
#44 ·
xr6 ute said:
Why is it, that people cant believe that with a few changes, the BA 6cylinder cant possibly come from 140rwkw(standard) to 180rwkws? The cold air on standard cars is small and restrictive, the air filters are thick cardboard crap which are impossible to get free flowing air through, the zorst are small and have 20 muflers, resonators catylitic converters(only designed for zero emissions), and a computer that detunes the engine for maximum life spand and best fuel economy. It's only a 40kw increase!?! how do you think that FPV makes a boss 260 into a boss 290? a turbo? a supercharger? or extreme internal work? No, a zorst, a filter, a more radical fuel gusling chip for the computer. Same with HSV, what makes a VX SS 235kw different to a VX GTS 300kw? thats 65kw increase with similar mods.
And i'm sure in time, we will all see chip, cam, and exhaust packages for all the ford motors which will considerable increase the power.
Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent it, it has on increased the engines power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has girl take the shit back!
Oh dear, you have a lot to learn buddy, before you dissrespect people like you have here with XRchic you really should do your homework 1st, like other's have anwsered your above post, you will never gain 40 rwkw's in those mod's your are talking about that is like a gain of 55odd fwkw, yeah right.
 
#46 · (Edited by Moderator)
xr6 ute said:
Oh yeah XRchic, do you really believe that with all the mods you've done to your car, and all the money you've spent it, it has on increased the engines power by 20 piss weak kilowatts? if it has girl take the shit back!
I can only assume 2 things here:

  1. You really havent done much research into car mods at all have you? Just do the maths. 180rwkw is probably close to 240fwkw. No bolt on mod is going to do that. It is possible but I think it is only possible if you open the head up and do some work in there (Cam, port, polish etc)
  2. You dont know XRchic. She probably understands and knows more about cars, mods and the likes than you do. As she said, she knows what is realistic and what isnt. She had a goal to achieve and, all said and done, achieved it.

Time to settle down and start to listen to what others already know. That way you won't look like a fool again.
 
#48 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well,
*********edited by laminge**************

I value everyones veiws but, i put my faith in autospeed, a company that has revued thousand of cars and also John Mock Motorsport, the real people working on cars in a performance shop everyday. If these people advertise that a BA can get 180 at the wheels, i will believe them.


THIS IS THE AUTOSPEED ARTICLE I READ.
BA-LLISTIC

We test JMM's bolt-on upgrade for the naturally aspirated Ford BA 4.0!

Michael Knowling
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At a glance...

The first aftermarket development of the local Ford DOHC non-turbo six
Dyno-developed intake, headers, exhaust and UniChip kit
Up to 180kW ATW
Good on-road performance gains
Cost effective

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With all the ranting and raving over Ford’s BA XR6T and quad-cam V8 engines, the run-of-the-mill 4.0 litre DOHC straight six is being completely overlooked. But after a drive of a BA Falcon 4.0 equipped with Jim Mock Motorsport’s DEV3 kit, we can assure you there is some go-fast potential!

With double overhead camshafts, infinitely variable cam timing, 24 valves and the latest engine management system, the BA 4.0 six offers substantial power from the factory. Peak power is an impressive 182kW at 5000 rpm.


After Ford’s mammoth engineering effort with this engine, it should come as no surprise that there’s limited scope for the aftermarket to achieve peak power – at least, not without adding forced induction or nitrous... However, it is achievable to increase the average power output and to sharpen throttle response.

And that’s exactly what we found behind the wheel of the Jim Mock Motorsport BA Falcon XT.


The throttle response of the JMM BA Falcon (with its manual gearbox) is wonderfully crisp. In fact, we can’t think of another car we’ve driven that offers better response – except, perhaps, the Mitsubishi Magna VR-X with manual trans (believe it or not, the Magna has stunning throttle response). The JMM Falcon’s crisp throttle response is immediately followed by a mountain of torque, which is greatest between 2000 and 4000 rpm. Performance falls away toward 6000 rpm - a result of the standard camshafts.


Despite weighing 1700kg+ and with two people onboard, we hand-timed the JMM BA to 100 km/h in the mid-to-high 6s. That’s decidedly quick and, unlike other modified performance cars, we found it very easy to get off the line. Just don’t be too eager when you pop the clutch...

According to JMM, a stock BA Falcon makes about 140kW at the wheels on their Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno. Autos are generally a couple of kilowatts below the 140 mark and manual versions are a couple of kilowatts above. Once brought up to DEV3 spec, output jumps to a claimed 180kW at the wheels – just 8kW behind what they’ve seen from a stock XR6 Turbo under the same conditions.

The subtleties to the upgrade are also impressive.


The engine fires into life with just a tiny amount longer cranking on the starter motor and the high-flow exhaust is completely resonance-free and quiet at cruise. Give it a bootfull and the exhaust howls, but it’s not offensively loud. The engine is also happy to trundle along in carparks in second gear with absolutely no surging, stalling or general misbehavior. Jim Mock suggests filling the tank with premium unleaded for maximum performance and, as we noticed, there’s no sign of detonation.

Okay, so that’s the result of modification - what exactly are the modifications?

The Jim Mock Motorsport DEV3 BA upgrade builds on the modifications involved in the DEV1 and DEV2 kits.


DEV1 begins with a 2 ½ inch cat-back mandrel exhaust with two large-body mufflers. The precise details of the system are a secret as DMM has invested a lot of R&D in achieving a broad torque curve without resonance or excess noise. Note that the exhaust for BA Falcon utes is slightly different to those for sedans and wagons.


DEV1 also includes a high-flow air intake, which comprises a Tickford over-the-radiator snorkel and a pod filter hidden inside the standard airbox. A custom plastic adaptor is required to secure the filter to the airbox. JMM defends their choice of installing a pod filter inside the factory airbox by citing their dyno development figures.

Another interesting component of the DEV1 kit is performance spark plugs sourced from America. Again, these are dyno tested.

The entry-level DEV1 upgrade for BA 4.0 Falcons retails for just AUD$695 (AUD$50 more for utes). JMM have seen this kit reach 148kW at the wheels – about 8kW more than stock.


DEV2 – the mid-level kit – employs everything found in DEV1 and adds JMM’s latest “Scavenger” headers along with a high-flow cat converter and adjoining 2 ½ inch pipe. The headers are the result of extensive dyno testing and JMM tells us their design ended up being about halfway between their scavenger and race series headers used in SOHC 4.0s. We’re told that the Ford six is extremely sensitive to combustion chamber scavenging. Note that the headers are also HPC’d to keep heat away from the nearby engine bay wiring.


DEV2 adds a significant AUD$885 to the price of the DEV1 kit, bringing the total to AUD$1580 (AUD$1630 for utes). However, the power gain justifies the extra cost – JMM claim about 168kW ATW. That’s a full 20kW more than DEV1 and 28kW more than stock.

Note that a slightly different version of this kit is also available – the DEV2A upgrade. DEV2A incorporates a 3 inch mandrel exhaust and cat converter (an early prototype is shown here), instead of the 2 ½ inch arrangement used in the usual DEV2 kit. The bigger exhaust adds AUD$260 and provides an extra 4kW, for a total of 172kW at the wheels.


DEV3 – the kit that we tested on the JMM BA Falcon XT – introduces one relatively expensive component. A UniChip interceptor module. JMM is tight-lipped about the specific air-fuel ratio and ignition timing changes they’ve made, but cam timing and electronic throttle control strategies remain unchanged.


In addition to providing improved drivability thanks to the UniChip, the DEV 3 upgrade ups the ante to 180kW at the wheels (see graph). The UniChip module contributes AUD$990 for an all-up cost of AUD$2570 (50 bucks extra for utes).

And the 3 inch exhaust upgrade? Well, at the time of writing, JMM were yet to see any extra power over their 2 ½ inch system. At around 180kW at the wheels, we’re told the DOHC Ford six is crying out for a new set of camshafts. JMM is currently working on this.


For now, though, the DEV 3 kit is a very well behaved and cost-effective upgrade for anyone with a naturally aspirated BA six. Fear not – you are guaranteed to feel the difference over a stocker!

Ford’s atmo engine does have some potential!

Contact:

JMM (Jim Mock Motorsport)
+61 3 9399 4401
www.jimmockmotorsport.com
 
#49 ·
Take your ute to JMM, get the kit.
I doubt you'll get 180rwkw BUT I will say you will love what you get and the car will be so much better for it.
I think JMM do fantastic work and their products are the very best in quality and performance for the I6. Ask anyone on here, they all know I think JMM are top notch.
I just dont think it will get 180rwkw. I would love to be proven wrong but I doubt it.
 
#50 ·
To clear the air, I spoke with Gary(laminge) he has informed me that in the past, JMM dyno's have been inacurate and misleading from other threads and peoples personal experiences. Also to XRchic, i want to appolise for having a stab at you and your car and offended you in anyway.
 
#51 ·
Not a problem. Apologies from me too, I was harsh as well. :beer2:
 
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