Ford Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Who will be producing the ZF 6 speed automatic gearbox in Australia?
Will it be BTR (under licence from ZF) ?
Will the Territory be released with the 6 speed or the old 4 speed auto.
The new Territory Brochure says Automatic Gearbox without mentioning the number of gears.

I want a Territory but will not buy one if it is released with the 4 speed auto.

What do you think?
regards
David
 

·
goooone
Joined
·
2,708 Posts
It's all rumours at the moment. I would be surprised if the Territory was released with only the 4 speed but nothing is official yet.
 

·
Bring Back Jeff Kennet
Joined
·
2,277 Posts
hmm well I would think that the 6 speed would be one pricey unit. For that reason alone I doubt it will be included. I could be completely wrong though. Would it really cost much more for a couple of gears?

I was thinking that high spec ford models might get a 6 speed and the lower stick with the 4 untill. Maybe, sounds silly I know but how else could they do it?

Although the 4 should really be axed by now, even with the sports shift its still old hat. I really hope that the territory gets the 6 but I doubt it.
 

·
Ford Member
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
When the lighter HFV6 engine gets into Commode and has Falcon type power with less weight and better effeciency mated to a new 5 speed auto you'd think that the even base Falcons will have to have something good to combat the power and effeciency let alone their marketing of the extra gear. What could do this better than the 6 auto? As much as Ford would want to i cant see it limited to the high end cars only. Perhaps only if Commode used a smaller capacity HFV6 in executive. As for territory id expect simmilar running gear to Falcon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
When i ordered my GT-p i was after the auto and at that time there was rumers that it would get the zf 6 speed in a tiptronic style shifter, but the auto was not yet confirmed and there was rumers of troubles with the auto they had being able to handle the power/torque so i went staight for the manual. im glad now that i didnt get the auto because next year it will get the 6 speed and the old 4 speed will not sell good on the 2nd hand market in years to come due to the fact a more desirable 6 speed is available. my advice is if you are going to buy a territory and it is realeased in 4 speed which i say it will in order to get rid of old 4 spd stock than wait till the series 2 which will definately get it due to the new hfv6 holden releases at the same time.

Elmer Fudd
 

·
In a blue Galaxy
Joined
·
5,716 Posts
I would have thought that the 6 speed would be in the xr (turbo and 8) and the FPV range only. I hope I'm wrong. I just hope that it does come out as well as a good 6 speed manual gearbox with senisible gear ratios.

Are these 6 speeders meant to be a touhg box? I would love a 6 speed auto Xr6T and work the balls off it and not have to worry about tranny going poop if i whacked up the boost. What maximum torque output they rated at?
 

·
Blue Blood
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
Cobra said:
I would have thought that the 6 speed would be in the xr (turbo and 8) and the FPV range only. I hope I'm wrong. I just hope that it does come out as well as a good 6 speed manual gearbox with senisible gear ratios.

Are these 6 speeders meant to be a touhg box? I would love a 6 speed auto Xr6T and work the balls off it and not have to worry about tranny going poop if i whacked up the boost. What maximum torque output they rated at?
Well its the auto box used in the hi-perf Jaguars, Aston Martins


http://www.zf-group.co.uk/news/news_archive/news_archive_6hp26.htm

It says 600Nm but i'd expect there'd be a higher perf model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
My guess is the Territory will be released with at least a 5-speed auto which would likely be locally developed to keep cost down, while the 6-speed auto would be reserved for the performance(XR's and GT's) and upper falcon models (Fairmont/Fairmont Ghia).

No matter what others say, I still believe the BAII will have 5-speed auto to counter Holden's HFV6 and 5/6 speed auto threat.
(then again, I could be wrong as Ford has been known to do stupid things)

The new Toyota Kluger has a 5-speed auto, and for that reason is smooth and fuel efficient, even with a 172kW VVT-i V6. The Volco XC90, BMW X5 and Mercedes M-class also have 5-speed auto's, but are obviously more expensive.

The point I'm trying to make is that most soft roaders are now being launched with 5-speed auto's to compensate for their extra weight.
The Territory will be at least 200-300kgs more than the Falcon because of the AWD system and more body mass, launching with a 4-speed auto would mean fuel consumption would be at least 14 litres per 100km if the current Falcon is anything to go by.

This would be suicide for the Territory as people considering the Territory would also consider the Kluger, and possibly others (ie..Maybe an Escape or Mazda Tribute). They recon the Toyota Kluger's fuel consumption is around the 10-11 litres per 100km on a city cycle, and around 9 litres per 100km on the highway.

People who would buy these soft offroaders are buying them for their lifestyle and seating/carrying capacity, and will definitely NOT want to pay big dollars for more fuel and maintenance, else they will stick with sedans/wagons. They also look for features in terms of "value for money". The Kluger for instance has full climate control even in the base model (the CV), lets hope the Territory does too, else Ford will have alot of them "sitting around" in their yards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
The Territory has a four speed auto. That is all it will be released with. It has lower diff ratios to compensate for the extra weight. Fuel economy won't be great but compared to vehicles that I believe would be in the consumers target buying group such as Pajeros, Prados and such it won't be any higher. The Kluger might be better in fuel economy but the Territory will be cheaper to buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Oh great! Now the thread's been moved... can I have a say into some of the other contender's that could also be pissed off into the abyss of seemingly lighter weight threads!

Useless lame threads that seem to go on and on beyond their useful life
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
bossxr8 said:
The Territory has a four speed auto. That is all it will be released with. It has lower diff ratios to compensate for the extra weight. Fuel economy won't be great but compared to vehicles that I believe would be in the consumers target buying group such as Pajeros, Prados and such it won't be any higher. The Kluger might be better in fuel economy but the Territory will be cheaper to buy.
Boss, if thats the case, I can see the Territory already being in trouble.

Do you think people will buy the argument pay less up-front, and pay more down the track ? Personally, I would rather pay $2-3k more and buy a vehicle from a manufacturer with a proven reputation in 4x4 vehicle systems, has a 5-speed automatic that helps in both performance and has better fuel economy(cheaper to run), has a 7-seat capability, and in the long run will have a better resale value.

Comparing it to proper 4-Wheel drives is a BIG mistake. The market segment that buy's these vehicles are fully aware of the fuel consumption and are willing to pay the extra for the ride height, 4x4 capability and 'perceived' safety. For this reason, paying $50-70k isn't an issue, and they will go for a proper fully capable 4-Wheel drive rather than a 'town-car' adapted from a sedan.

Why would I pay $40k for a town-car when I can get a REAL 4x4 like a Nissan Pathfinder (ST), which does 14litres/100km (it does even better as I know someone who has one..), has true 4x4 capability and is switchable between 2WD and 4WD, and more importantly has 64% resale value after 3 years which is mainly attributable to the 4WD reputation for quality, reliability and rugedness that Nissan have with these 'cars'. Toyota has an even better reputation with the RAV4, Prado, Landcruiser, and I am sure this will be passed on to the Kluger.

My understanding from YOUR CEO is that the Territory is designed mainly for city/town driving, while having some capability to take it off-road on weekends and holidays. Its also got the extra seating capability for the 'lifestyle' that goes with a large family. For this reason fuel economy is bloody important as most of its driving will be in Metro area's.

Territory needs at least a 5-speed auto, or I can see Ford with lots of these parked in their car lots for extended periods of time...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
I think your reading in to it too much. How many people actually know how many gears their cars have and what percentage of people would buy one car over another because it has an extra gear. I assume it would be very few. And if it uses a couple more litres per hundred k's more how long would it take to save enough money on fuel to cover the extra few thousand dollars of purchase price. It would be a long time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
bossxr8 said:
How many people actually know how many gears their cars have and what percentage of people would buy one car over another because it has an extra gear. I assume it would be very few. And if it uses a couple more litres per hundred k's more how long would it take to save enough money on fuel to cover the extra few thousand dollars of purchase price. It would be a long time.
Yes your right, people dont "know" about gears until they ask the question "Why does Ford's Territory burn 4 or 5 litres more fuel ?", after which their Toyota dealer will say "because we have a lighter more modern engine and one additional gear in the automatic gearbox". I think people will start caring then. Ford engines have always had the reputation of "drinking" alot, and the Territory will reinforce this even more.

I cant see people buying the Territory without doing some basic research and comparing it against other similar vehicles (ie..Kluger), so I can see the above happening frequently. And if Toyota really wants to get aggresive, they can even begin some advertising to increase awareness of the Territory's wekanesses, and even begin discounting which they can afford to do because they are in the lead in terms of sales.
Can Ford Aus afford to do this ?

In terms of pay-off, based on doing around 25000km/year, you'd pay this off in around 3 years. Also, considering the likely better resale/trade-in value of Toyota 4WD's and because of that "extra gear", somewhere around 5-10% better (ie..$2-3k just there..), people will start seeing the value of that extra gear.

I've always said the Territory will be a mistake for Ford, just watch it happen, lets just hope they dont stop building Falcons !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
What have you got against the Territory. You're slaging it off before you've even driven one. Wait and see how it goes when its released before you write it off. And there will be a 5-6k price difference between them so you can double the amount of time needed to cover the price difference. Do you think people would buy a more economical car because in six years time it will work out cheaper. Not likely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
bossxr8 said:
What have you got against the Territory. You're slaging it off before you've even driven one. Wait and see how it goes when its released before you write it off. And there will be a 5-6k price difference between them so you can double the amount of time needed to cover the price difference. Do you think people would buy a more economical car because in six years time it will work out cheaper. Not likely.
I've got nothing against the Territory, its just that its being released with a 4-speed auto (when it should have at least 5 like all of its competition), and by the sound of it, its going to "drink" plenty when driven around town where most will be driving it.
The person who began this thread has said he wont buy one unless its got at least a 5 or 6-speed auto. Add myself to that opinion and thats two people who wont buy one.. as a car company, Ford is supposed to listen to its potential customers, not bag them because our expectations are high.

Its not rocket science, just common sense. People these days just dont want gas guzzlers anymore, and company's like Toyota can produce cars with good power AND economy. The Kluger cross-over is an example of this.

Also, you missed an important point, RESALE VALUE. Typical Toyota 4WDs (ie..Landcruisers/Rav's/Prado's) have resales of around 65% after 3 years. Most locally built Fords are around the 50-55% mark (and even less if your trading it in for a new car). If Ford then update the Territory with a 5 or 6 speed auto in 12 months time, where will that leave the series 1 Territory's. (probably at 40%..)

As for pure price, Toyota are good at discounting, and as I said in my last post, at No 1 - THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

If the public dont put some pressure on car company's then were always left with second best (on quality and features), especially the local built stuff.

I am surprised that Ford are'nt going with a 5 or 6 speed auto, considering that Holden has virtually confirmed that they will be puting one into the VZ - along with their HFV6 later this year. Toyota ALREADY have it in their Kluger.
 

·
Can't wait for Winton...
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
2 quick comments only - I have spent some time driving a Pathfinder and they use quite a lot of fuel around town (3.3L V6, auto and 1800kg mean you have your foot into it a lot). Also I would be highly surprised if Ford introduced more than one new auto (perhaps a different one for the V8s though) as there is not enough volume to justify the extra costs.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top