[Guest]

Straight motor swap, are there any problems I might run into with this? I need to know asap, gonna be getting the engine this week... Also, anyone know approximately how much it is to rent an engine hoist? Where to rent one? Thanks!

 

[Pat_SOPOC]

they are essentially the same motor. HOWEVER, the 97 was OBDII whereas 93 was OBDI.

You will most likely need a 93-95 ECU and wire harness. Plus, you will have FEWER O2 sensors with the 93. So, you may need to have sections of your exhaust redone.

Just some things to consider.

 

[Pat_SOPOC]

Ok, I see now, you are dropping in the 97 to the 93? Damn, I'm confused! LOL

Well, you get the idea. You'll need the correct year ECU.

 

[Guest]

Ok, yea, the 97 motor is going in the 93 car. If i take his ecu then i will need the extra o2 sensors, however if i use mine i will not. That is how i understand it. Is this correct?

 

[EatMoreCow]

Ok, yea, the 97 motor is going in the 93 car. If i take his ecu then i will need the extra o2 sensors, however if i use mine i will not. That is how i understand it. Is this correct?

Your PCM won't work.
Your '93 computer is OBD-I & the '97 is OBD-II.

You're going to need the PCM that matches the engine (which is OBD-II), or it'll never start because the engine is going to be expecting OBD-II format signals, and the PCM will be sending OBD-I format signals, and vice versa.

The PCM & engine won't be able to communicate, leaving you dead in the water.

 

[Guest]

pcm... what is it?

 

[Pat_SOPOC]

You'll need the ECU (PCM). The Enginge Control Module, or Powertrain Control Module. The 93 ECU WILL NOT work for a 97 motor. At least this is my understanding.

 

[Guest]

Are you absolutely positive of that? I need to know for sure, this is very important as he has already sold his ecu... If you are positively sure of this please let me know!

 

[Pat_SOPOC]

Well, if it is a DIRECT swap you'll need the ecu.

But, I'm sure there has to be a way to make the 93 ECU work. I know that there are more vacuum lines on one of the intake manifolds. I also know that if the car is a California Emissions car it has some extra doo-dads.

You may need to swap over the 93 IM to the 97 or something like that.

Either way, I'm sure you can MAKE it work.

 

[Guest]

the 93 ecu should work fine.

Most of the OBDII stuff has to do with emissions, ie; extra 02 sensors, precats in the exhaust manifolds, etc.
The actual motor itself is almost identical.

Trying to use a 97 ecu on a 93 setup probably wouldnt work.
so as long as you are not trying to swap exhaust manifolds and y-pipes you are going to be fine.

 

[EatMoreCow]

the 93 ecu should work fine.

Most of the OBDII stuff has to do with emissions, ie; extra 02 sensors, precats in the exhaust manifolds, etc.
The actual motor itself is almost identical.

Trying to use a 97 ecu on a 93 setup probably wouldnt work.
so as long as you are not trying to swap exhaust manifolds and y-pipes you are going to be fine.

So you're saying that a OBD-I PCM will be able to set the timing, spark advance, mixture, etc on a OBD-II engine?
There's a lot more he's going to have to change out from his '93 onto the '97 block to get that to work.

IMO, it would be worth it to try and find another engine that's compatible with OBD-I ('93-'95 motor).

 

[Guest]

all the things you just mentioned, timing, spark advance etc are the same on the obdII engines. the motor itself is still a kl03 with the same compression ratio and everything else, the only thing obdII changes is the way it communicates with certain sensors. from what I have been hearing, the sensors it communicates differently with all lie outside of the engine, therefore meaning the 93 ecm should work with the 97 motor with ease. if not, I can always swap my 93 sensors which are still all intact with the 97 sensors so the ecm can communicate properly. correct?

 

[EatMoreCow]

all the things you just mentioned, timing, spark advance etc are the same on the obdII engines. the motor itself is still a kl03 with the same compression ratio and everything else, the only thing obdII changes is the way it communicates with certain sensors.

'93 & '97s have different distributors & miscellaneous ignition components.

There's more than just the sensors that are different that'll affect your engine's performance.
OBD-II is a different type of PCM, it's an 'upgrade' from an OBD-I system due to government regulations. Since they had to meet different standards, a few components had to be changed.
Some other components changed just over the course of time.

If your block is trashed, and the person with the '97 will sell theirs to you cheap, swap them.
If I were you, I would compare the price they quote you to some remanufactured short blocks with warranties first.

 

[Guest]

800 bucks for his 97. 45k miles. what do u think?

 

[Guest]

So you're saying that a OBD-I PCM will be able to set the timing, spark advance, mixture, etc on a OBD-II engine?
There's a lot more he's going to have to change out from his '93 onto the '97 block to get that to work.

IMO, it would be worth it to try and find another engine that's compatible with OBD-I ('93-'95 motor).

Look...it has been done, and it will work.

OBDII is an upgraded computer. It can communicate to the USER much better than OBD. It can tell you everything that is going on.

The 1997 MOTOR is the EXACT same thing. Tell us what has been changed on the motor to make it different. PLEASE tell us.

Different distributor?
Yes, its different. It doesnt STOP WORKING like the 93-94 disty's do. And the FIX for the faulty distributor is to buy a 95-97.

 

[EatMoreCow]

I don't think I worded my response correctly, poirier.

Depends on what you're defining as a motor.

The blocks, heads, and manifolds?
Or what you'd pull out if you cut loose the tranny & motor mounts?
For the most part, it's the same. But you should know that a subtle difference such as a crank sensor can keep it from running.
Compare a set of '93 & '97 emissions & engine control diagrams, which is what OBD-I & OBD-II concern for the most part.

It can be done, but it depends on if he wants a direct drop in or a motor he's going to have to play with a little bit before installing (more down time).
Also depends on what the person's asking for the engine (may be easier to buy a remanufactured short block with a warranty.
If you had a detailed list of everything that needed to be swapped to make the install go smoothly, it probably wouldn't be that bad.
But he'll probably be using visuals & trial & error to figure it out.

I'm just trying to give cre3d a head's up; it's his decision, but I'm not going to tell him that he can swap it out in an afternoon and be done with it.

Maybe somebody else can shed some light on this, because there may be less difference between the two than I think. :shrug:

 

[EatMoreCow]

Different distributor?
Yes, its different. It doesnt STOP WORKING like the 93-94 disty's do. And the FIX for the faulty distributor is to buy a 95-97.

I thought the 'fix' was to buy a distributor with an upgraded ignitor.
Do the '93-'97 distributors swap out 'plug & play' style with each other? I've heard of people having to retrofit their distributors when they got them out of a different car.

 

[tim87114]

Ok, here is my evaluation of this. First off are you just trying to get a lower mileage engine? If so, in theory, as long as FORD is on your side. They kept the engine essentially the same and just upgraded the sensors and such for obdII. So if you didn't want that crap and didn't care that you had to plug in a 300 code scanner to read the error codes then just swap all the obdI stuff onto the new engine and your set. Word of warning though, first I would check on how many engines and trannys these cars had. Let me clear that up for example a 96 taurus has 3 engines and 3 trannies. Ok and they are all 3.0L engines. One SHO, one 2-v head and one is the 4-v head. So you would think they are all the same block and tranny right? wrong. The bell housings are all different. And some times when they are the same they will throw out there the infamous "one side of the drive shaft is longer than the other" trick. But being your car is actually a mazda maybe you are in luck. Just be carefull, 800 bucks is alot of money to throw around. And I would totally agree with the other fella, you will probably need to do a little more research. Sorry I can't give you any thing other than that.

 

[Guest]

So essentially, are the sensors backwards compatible? I mean from what I gather the OBDII system can simply give u more details from the same sensors, there is no change in how they work, just how they are controlled... As for disty, I will definitely try to research a little into it but if anything I can always swap it with my 93 disty no problem.

To clarify things, I am essentially buying what comes out when you disconnect the tranny and mounts.. I am buying the engine so I can drop it into my car when I take my 93 out (disconnect from tranny and mounts, everything else stays).

I think 800 is a good price for this motor, 45k miles on a 97 with a good maintenance record. I have seen the engine and driven the car before, it runs beautifully.

Please let me know if you know more or can confirm any of what has been said. Thanks!