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ESP Man
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Have seen a bit on here about CHI heads but nothing on the Air Flow Dynamics heads also from Melbourne.

See new website at www.airflowdynamics.com.au

Has anyone had any experience with the AFD heads?
 

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ive just been to their web site and now am very very tempted to get some!

$3100 for a alloy head flowing 600+hp, machined up for studs, good valves, double springs and moly retainers and locks! IM EXCITED

you could spend close to that doing up some 2v's, but they wont flow near that and wont run on pump fuel.

haha this engine started out being a mild 300hp job lol

brenx, with your 3v's, were they a drop on drive away deal?, what else is involved to converting over to the alloy? ill put my studs+guide plates from my first heads on these.
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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The AFD's will be more a drop on drive away deal than the 3V's. I didn't want to sacrifice power for a head that won't do what I want it to. AFD would have only made around 500-510hp with my setup, where the CHI make quite a substancial bit more. :) They may suit some other engine setups here. AFD is only local too. They're located in Berwick, Vic.

AFD is or already has in delopment a 4v type alloy head, similar to CHI's 218cc head. It'll be interesting to see what kind of figures an engine pulls with the AFD 4v.

Just check the guides are centred if anyone purchases AFD's or CHI's. I aint seen a set yet with the guides drilled centre on the AFD's. I've been told by Dave @ AFD this has been corrected but in the next post he posted a pic of AFD's just prepped. Guess what? Guides off centre.

There are various places will tell you it's not an issue. Think of it this way, Less room for guide wear if it's not centred.

I've seen a single pair of CHI's been redone for this reason. It's not a major problem, the fix is replace the guides correctly and carefully.

All comes down to individual choice. I may have chosen AFD if the new head was out but I'll never know.

Brenden
 

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why do u say they are only good for 500hp with your setup? why is the chi's better for you?
do u think $3160 is a good price for these heads complete?
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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qwikcorty said:
why do u say they are only good for 500hp with your setup? why is the chi's better for you?
do u think $3160 is a good price for these heads complete?
Short story is the AFD is chasing CHI for flow. The CHI's flow more. More flow = more power.

AFD = 620hp head
CHI = 680hp head

Even the Engine masters head 3V (CHI's 2V) flows more than the AFD 2V. It all amounts to how much money you have in your pocket.

Brenden
 

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in their web page it says they've delevoped a 4v alloy head with 700hp flow! its in the coming soon section.
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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qwikcorty said:
in their web page it says they've delevoped a 4v alloy head with 700hp flow! its in the coming soon section.
All sounds good for cleveland users. Just have to wait for testing to see if they work well. My guess is yes they'll work nicely anyway. I'd like to see a set firsthand to look at the port work.

Brenden
 

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Munch Munch Rice 4 Lunch
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but brenx didn't you have some problems with your alloy heads when you first fitted them?
 

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RevHeadRon said:
but brenx didn't you have some problems with your alloy heads when you first fitted them?
Yes, The manifold holes in the head didn't line up. The reason for this is CHI designs their heads only to take their CHI manifold. In short busted a bolt trying to get a manifold on. Too much side pressure.

CHI has since moved the manifold bolts to the stock positioning till their manifold is released. Problem solved. My issue was solved by elongating the manifold holes.

Only other issue I had was fitting my 2v pacemaker 4070 4-1 extractors. They were required to be bent down 10mm. If I'd purchased 4v pacemaker 4075 4-1 extractors this wouldn't have been an issue.

I just wanted to use my close enough to new parts. So it made it difficult. Everything else went like clock work ;)

Brenden
 

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Munch Munch Rice 4 Lunch
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i'm not exactly sure what you mean by bending the extractors down 10mm, how did you go about bending the extractors? where and why did you have to?
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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RevHeadRon said:
i'm not exactly sure what you mean by bending the extractors down 10mm, how did you go about bending the extractors? where and why did you have to?
Heated them up with a oxy and bent them downward. They needed to be bent downward where they run under the floor. Had to bend them as they fouled the floorpan. The reason the 4070's need to be bent is the 2V port is in a slightly different position than the 3V's port. The 3V's port is 5mm higher than stock 2V. 4V extractors 4075 hang lower from the factory, so it's not an issue.

Brenden
 

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Munch Munch Rice 4 Lunch
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ok now i get it, down at the floorpan, i thought for a second you meant like bending something up at the manifold surface, like where it bolts on or something that would be scary.
so there was no drama with the bolts for the exhaust manifolds
do the alloy heads have accomodation for alternators and powersteering pumps and stuff like that?
the reason i ask is that my father owns a T'Bucket hot rod, the motor we had built is meant to be good for 400hp with his cast heads (ported 302 heads) he wants to now upgrade to alloys he he more power, and i'm just curious if the $2000 exhausts we had made will still be useable?
 

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what about the head gasket dramas you had and you were complaning the standard head bolts were to short and the manifold bolts were also 1/2 inch to short.
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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RevHeadRon said:
ok now i get it, down at the floorpan, i thought for a second you meant like bending something up at the manifold surface, like where it bolts on or something that would be scary.
so there was no drama with the bolts for the exhaust manifolds
do the alloy heads have accomodation for alternators and powersteering pumps and stuff like that?
the reason i ask is that my father owns a T'Bucket hot rod, the motor we had built is meant to be good for 400hp with his cast heads (ported 302 heads) he wants to now upgrade to alloys he he more power, and i'm just curious if the $2000 exhausts we had made will still be useable?
Nope, no drama's with exhaust manifold bolts etc. Yes, they accomodate for alternators/power steer/aircon etc. I run power steer myself.

On a hotrod, I don't think you'd have an issue.

Slaves wage : I was shitty with the head bolts, as I'd purchsed new ones standard length prior, so I had to take back 10 bolts and get 1/2" longer outer bolts. Thats not an issue with the heads. It's best to get new bolts anyway.

Headgasket wise the Felpro O-ringed were pieces of shit. Felpro standard are working fine with 11.2:1 compression. Have been for quite awhile now. Not really a head issue either.

Brenden
 

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ESP Man
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Discussion Starter #15
RevHeadRon said:
the reason i ask is that my father owns a T'Bucket hot rod, the motor we had built is meant to be good for 400hp with his cast heads (ported 302 heads) he wants to now upgrade to alloys he he more power, and i'm just curious if the $2000 exhausts we had made will still be useable?
I have seen a set of CHI's bolted into a '48 ute "hot rod" that had custom 4 into 1's made for stock heads. They bolted up to the heads OK as the pattern is the same, problem was because the ports are higher the backing plate (if thats what you call it) that bolts to the head now covered the spark plugs and the plug leads couldn't go on as the top of the plugs was right behind the backing plate. This would also necessitate removal of the extractors to change plugs. Therefore, custom extractors fitment to CHI's will depend on the design of the backing plate.

Looking at my Pacemaker 4v's, (older style - not cone over) I doubt that they would bolt on without modification of the backing plate. The backing plate is scalloped out from the top in between the the pipes to allow fitment of the spark plus. Looks to me that the scalloped out bit would need to be filled in and a section scalloped out from the bottom to allow access the plugs.

CHI's are definately not a drop in and drive proposition at this stage. As Brenx experienced, most extractors will need some modification down the bottom to clear the floorpan and bolt up to the rest of your system.

Also, your inlet manifold will not bolt up to the CHI's because the inlet ports are higher up the head which makes the gap wider. CHI supply a spacer which goes accross the valley and up the inside face of the heads. This is required until their inlet manifold becomes available.

AFD heads don't give either inlet or exhaust manifold problems. David Webb at AFD says both your old manifolds will bolt straight on without modification.
The exhaust ports are only 2mm higher in the head than standard so this will make bugger all difference down the bottom of the extractors.

CHI's flow figures are showing higher numbers but this doesn't necessarily result in more torque and only time will tell which heads get a car down the 1/4 quickest.

We need to see some actual comparisons from independant sources which is why I started this thread in the first place. Who has got these heads bolted up and working and can vouch for results?
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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shaynet said:
CHI's are definately not a drop in and drive proposition at this stage. As Brenx experienced, most extractors will need some modification down the bottom to clear the floorpan and bolt up to the rest of your system.

Also, your inlet manifold will not bolt up to the CHI's because the inlet ports are higher up the head which makes the gap wider. CHI supply a spacer which goes accross the valley and up the inside face of the heads. This is required until their inlet manifold becomes available.
Any 2V manifold will bolt up. Thats what the 2V adaptors for. Although I wouldn't recommend using a 2V manifold and adaptor. 4V manifold is better and doesn't require the adaptor. Same goes for extractors. 4V is what the heads are designed to accept. Hence when CHI did their testing they had no issues.

Anyway, I'll post some pics to clear things up. Remember not worthing commenting unless you have them on a car and done the c/o which I have.

A bad extractor flange design would make it hard. 4V factory manifolds bolt on without any issues. Don't even bother with 2V manifolds. The heads are designed for 4V manifold/extractor use.

I'll take some pics of the extractors to clear some issues up.

Brenden
 

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well, after just coming home from dave webb's place to look at the heads and have a chat, ill be saving my pennies for a set of alloy heads!!!! they look awesome!!
 

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http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1896.jpg <--the bend you see is where they had to be bent. 4V's hang this low.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1897.jpg <--if mine were 4V's they'd hang this low. Well my 2V's do now.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1898.jpg <--pictured is the 2V manifold adaption plate. The manifold bolts needed to be 1/2" longer due to the adaption plate. I am going back to stock bolts when I get the CHI manifold.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1899.jpg <--you can see no problems with plugs, what so ever. You can also see my 1/2 longer grade 8 outer head bolts and arp washers.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1900.jpg <--just another shot showing the head bolts and non-existant plug clearance issues.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1902.jpg <--front of the 2V adaptor. Bit messy but hey I was in a hurry. It was getting dark.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/100_1903.jpg <--better shot of the 2V adaptor. Paying attention to the middle 1/2" bolts. This is where you can see how offset the holes are.

Hope I've helped a few people. The extractors pictured are infact 2V pacemakers pn 4070. Anything can be done, you just have to make it happen. My old genie 4-2-1's would have fitted nicely without even requiring bending.

[edit] I wished I'd taken photo's of how well the weiand xcellerator matched the ports. Can't have everything.

Brenden
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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No, didn't need to. Just dummied it all up and found it matched. It may have been touched up for my old 2V cast iron but I couldn't find any machine marks. 2V weiands run large ports bigger than a stock 4v manifold in fact.

Just thought I'd also mention. Remember Pete (XR9UTE)? He's running a set of 3V engine masters heads in his XE ute. Hence how I also know that Pacemaker 4V extractors pn 4075 fit and don't require any bending. ;) Thats in a XE ute. So that'd cover all X series falcons that the 4075's fit.

Brenden
 
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