Ford Forums banner

41 - 52 of 52 Posts
J

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #41

> Actually, when you think about it, many businesses are pyramids- grunt-level
> employees at the base then various smaller levels of management up to the
> owner/CEO who makes the most money...disregarding the stockholders in public
> corporations.


That so broadens the definition of a Pyramid scheme that it becomes
meaningless


> The difference in so-called "Pyramid Schemes", to simplify the FTC
> definition of illegal vs. legal pyramids, is that the legal ones sell real
> products and/or services but pay no remuneration for recruiting. An illegal
> pyramid pays people to recruit new people (out of the new recruits' sign-up
> fees) with little or no attention to marketing legitimate products/services.
>
> There are many companies that sell "worthless" merchandise without bothering
> to go to the effort of setting up a MLM program. Every now and then I happen
> to catch one of those infomercials on TV and am astounded at the blatant
> rip-offs...ever see the one with the little bit of foil (for $19.95) that
> supposedly boosted your cell phone signal when you stuck it to the back of
> your phone?


Not knowing how the payments flow in your example it would seem to be a
pyramid gussied up to look like a MLM.


>
> I'd rather see the gov't stop wasting their (our) money with this futile
> "war on drugs" and put it toward stopping these rip-off artists with their
> phoney (pun intended) products who are stealing hundreds of millions from
> gullible consumers. Legalize recreational pharmaceuticals and tax them and
> reduce the taxes the rest of us have to pay on booze and cigarettes...yeah,
> like that's gonna happen.
>
> I don't care if my mechanic smokes a little dope on week-ends...as long as
> he isn't high when he's fixing my car.
 
?

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #42
Arthur Dent <[email protected]> wrote in article <[email protected]>...
>
>
> I don't care if my mechanic smokes a little dope on week-ends...as long

as
> he isn't high when he's fixing my car.
>


So, you figure the dope that the dope smokes Sunday night is totally
cleared from his system on Monday morning, and has absolutely no effect on
his motor or reasoning skills while he is working on the brakes of the
vehicle in which your wife and kids ride????

Brave man!!!!!
 
C

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:42:49 GMT, "CJB" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Your post implies that Mobil 1 does not meet or exceed API ratings. That
>>is
>>simply not true. You do so because you're trying to bring AmSoil up to
>>the
>>level of Mobil 1. You mention the inferiority of AmSoil, then try to say,
>>essentially, that Mobil 1 is the same. That's just not accurate.
>>
>>Your argument in defense of AmSoil is that it doesn't meet API ratings
>>because it's better. That's silly. That's why the term is "meet or
>>exceed." AmSoil may have more "stuff" than the ratings require, but it
>>doesn't meet the minimums for protection, and therefore doesn't even
>>submit
>>its snakeoil for approval.
>>
>>CJB
>>

> The FACT is Amsoil does not have an API specifcation.
> This MAY be because it does not meet the spec, or it MAY be they are
> too whatever to submit their oil for testing. Either way, the product
> is an unknown entity - and if I can not be assured it meets the
> minimum requirements and will not cause problems in my engine I will
> NOT pay their premium price for their product. If I want to run a
> synthentic oil, which up to this point I have not determined to be a
> significant advantage to me, I will use one that meets and excedes all
> specificatioons called for by the manufacturer of my engine. At this
> point, this means an API spec.
> I may use a different viscosity than called for by the manufacturer -
> one that I feel comfortable with for my operating conditions. I feel
> I'm qualified to make that decision for myself and live with any
> consequences because viscosity is something that is reasonably easily
> understood, where the API specs are a bit more complex. I'm willing to
> trade off a small percentage of fuel economy for the aditional
> protection I believe my engine recieves from my choice of oil.
>
> I won't try to convince anyone that they should do the same.
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***


That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We
agree.

CJB
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
"*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>
> Arthur Dent <[email protected]> wrote in article

<[email protected]>...
> >
> >
> > I don't care if my mechanic smokes a little dope on week-ends...as long

> as
> > he isn't high when he's fixing my car.
> >

>
> So, you figure the dope that the dope smokes Sunday night is totally
> cleared from his system on Monday morning, and has absolutely no effect on
> his motor or reasoning skills while he is working on the brakes of the
> vehicle in which your wife and kids ride????


No worse than the bonehead who goes out and gets puking drunk and is so
hung-over he can barely remember his own name. You are always going to have
people who abuse something whether it it a legally obtained substance such
as alcohol or prescription narcotics, or [currently] illegally obtained
pharmaceuticals. There is no way of stopping it short of outlawing every
single substance that offers a physiological/psychological effect that
people seek, and watching every single person 24 hours a day in a strictly
controlled police state. And who will watch the watchers (to steal a phrase,
and to refer to the previously posted links to articles referencing illegal
actions by law enforcement officers)?

Allow legal retail purchases just like alcohol and cigarettes at reasonable
prices and your illegal market goes the way of the bootleggers, sure, there
are still a few of those around but it isn't really that big a problem. Not
only could the massive amounts of tax dollars being spent on investigations
and housing prisoners whose only crime is smoking a little dope or snorting
some coke be put to a better use (like back in our pockets), but the
additional tax revenue gained would offset and allow decreases in other
current revenue sources (like personal income taxes and real estate taxes).

We already have laws in place to penalize those whose impaired behavior
presents a danger to others, they just need to be enforced even-handedly
across the board.
 
T

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #45
"That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point. We
agree. CJB"

and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also
 
C

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
"tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> snake oil. it don't meet any of the specifications or certifications for

any
> of my vehicles.


That is probably not true. The XL7500 Product Line is API Certified and
available in the latest grades (even for Ford's that spec 5W20). On the
other hand, it is not a "true" synthetic. It is one of the faux synthetics
like Castrol Syntec (heavily refined petroleum).

Amsoil may be great stuff, but the whole marketing scheme is a giant
turn-off. The Amsoil corporate site stays just on the right side of the
truth (everything is true if over hyped), but some of the individual dealers
who market the stuff don't have much of a grip on reality and don't mind
crossing over into the Twilight Zone when hyping the products.

Ed
 
3

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
"Arthur Dent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>> Arthur Dent <[email protected]> wrote in article

> <[email protected]>...
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't care if my mechanic smokes a little dope on week-ends...as long

>> as
>> > he isn't high when he's fixing my car.
>> >

>>
>> So, you figure the dope that the dope smokes Sunday night is totally
>> cleared from his system on Monday morning, and has absolutely no effect
>> on
>> his motor or reasoning skills while he is working on the brakes of the
>> vehicle in which your wife and kids ride????

>
> No worse than the bonehead who goes out and gets puking drunk and is so
> hung-over he can barely remember his own name. You are always going to
> have
> people who abuse something whether it it a legally obtained substance such
> as alcohol or prescription narcotics, or [currently] illegally obtained
> pharmaceuticals. There is no way of stopping it short of outlawing every
> single substance that offers a physiological/psychological effect that
> people seek, and watching every single person 24 hours a day in a strictly
> controlled police state. And who will watch the watchers (to steal a
> phrase,
> and to refer to the previously posted links to articles referencing
> illegal
> actions by law enforcement officers)?
>
> Allow legal retail purchases just like alcohol and cigarettes at
> reasonable
> prices and your illegal market goes the way of the bootleggers, sure,
> there
> are still a few of those around but it isn't really that big a problem.
> Not
> only could the massive amounts of tax dollars being spent on
> investigations
> and housing prisoners whose only crime is smoking a little dope or
> snorting
> some coke be put to a better use (like back in our pockets), but the
> additional tax revenue gained would offset and allow decreases in other
> current revenue sources (like personal income taxes and real estate
> taxes).
>
> We already have laws in place to penalize those whose impaired behavior
> presents a danger to others, they just need to be enforced even-handedly
> across the board.
>


Way Too Many People Can NOT Partake in Moderation.
Even when it is already illegal to partake in the first place.

Just like drunks, pot heads and drug addicts quickly reach the point where
there is no line between weekend use and everyday use, or on the job use.

If these "upstanding citizens" can't control themselves, who can?

An Oregon lawmaker Kelley Wirth indicted on meth possession charge.
http://www.katu.com/salem/story.asp?ID=80767

NM Judge Arrested For Cocaine
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006730.html

Lawyer Arrested in Drug Sweep
http://www.witntv.com/home/headlines/1121911.html

Lawyer suspended over drug use
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/04/iraq.usa.shirt.reut/

Las Vegas Police: Officer Arrested, Faces Felony Drug
http://www.drugwar.com/plasvegasdrugcop.shtm

Police Officer Arrested in Pine Bluff Drug Raid
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0206/299615.html

Police Officer Arrested For Falsifying Oxycontin Prescriptions
http://www.ryar.org/news/08-15-05.html

Clackamas County Sheriff's deputy, David Verbos, 36, is accused in the
indictment of holding-up the Mid Valley Bank located in Wilsonville as well
as armed robberies at various area stores including the pharmacies at the
McMinnville Bi-Mart and Wilsonville Target stores as well as a quick-cash
outlet in Newberg.
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_020806_news_deputy_indicted.ac3f549.html

Sheriff Sergeant Arrested and Fired for Drug Theft
http://www.montcnty.com/index.php?page=powell

Oklahoma City Police Officer Arrested On Drug Complaints
http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=75219

Union police officer arrested on drug charge
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2932219&nav=0RaPWFEQ
 
H

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
tom wrote:
> "That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point.
> We agree. CJB"
>
> and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also


Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it cannot
be leagues better than it. It is different in that it doesn't conform. It
might be a far superior lubricant but if used in an already worn engine it
might damage the catilyst. I'm not saying that is the reason for non
conformation but it could be, so the 'snake oil' comment is not valid. It is
true that conformation and accreditation to API standards prevents snake oil
being sold and is therefore a 'good thing' but for oil enthusiasts who may
want the very best without compromise then different standards may be more
important.
Remember that the API have traditionally set the lowest standard for oil
below which is unacceptable. Nothing to stop somebody producing a far
superior oil though it would be better if the superior oil also passed all
parameters required to pass the API standard as well. This would stop any
confusion. All standards are a compromise, none more so than the API minimal
standards. Amsoil use a different set of compromises for some of their
range. Hooray for variety and nonconformity.
And I will probably never use their oil.


Huw
Huw
 
T

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #49
your logic is over my head. if api certification is "the lowest standard
for oil below which is unacceptable. ", and amsoil does not meet api
certification, how can it be a far superior oil??

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> tom wrote:
> > "That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point.
> > We agree. CJB"
> >
> > and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also

>
> Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it

cannot
> be leagues better than it. It is different in that it doesn't conform. It
> might be a far superior lubricant but if used in an already worn engine it
> might damage the catilyst. I'm not saying that is the reason for non
> conformation but it could be, so the 'snake oil' comment is not valid. It

is
> true that conformation and accreditation to API standards prevents snake

oil
> being sold and is therefore a 'good thing' but for oil enthusiasts who may
> want the very best without compromise then different standards may be more
> important.
> Remember that the API have traditionally set the lowest standard for oil
> below which is unacceptable. Nothing to stop somebody producing a far
> superior oil though it would be better if the superior oil also passed all
> parameters required to pass the API standard as well. This would stop any
> confusion. All standards are a compromise, none more so than the API

minimal
> standards. Amsoil use a different set of compromises for some of their
> range. Hooray for variety and nonconformity.
> And I will probably never use their oil.
>
>
> Huw
> Huw
>
>
 
3

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> tom wrote:
>> "That AmSoil doesn't even meet minimum specs was entirely my point.
>> We agree. CJB"
>>
>> and that was the reason for my snake oil comment also

>
> Just because it doesn't meet API specifications does not mean that it
> cannot be leagues better than it.


Yes it does! It is a meet or exceed specification, it either meets the
minimal API specification or it does not, that means it is NOT good enough!
Period.

> Huw
>
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
"351CJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>
> Way Too Many People Can NOT Partake in Moderation.
> Even when it is already illegal to partake in the first place.
>
> Just like drunks, pot heads and drug addicts quickly reach the point where
> there is no line between weekend use and everyday use, or on the job use.
>
> If these "upstanding citizens" can't control themselves, who can?


And therein lies much of my point.

It is not necessarily the substances that are the problem, but the people
who abuse them. Simple possession should not be a crime. I don't know how
many of those articles apply to abuse, as I haven't read them, but some of
the titles are indicative of problems other than the substances. Focus
efforts and expense on REAL crimes.

Just in case you're wondering, my "drug" use is generaly limited to
caffiene, nicotine and alcohol (and I rarely get drunk). Once in a while, I
might get a script for a painkiller but I generally take it at a lesser dose
than prescribed and usually don't finish it. I don't smoke pot or snort coke
or take any other drugs for recreational use. As a former participant in law
enforcement I've even helped to take down a cop or two for drug crimes. I'm
not speaking from a position of total ignorance of this particular subject,
I'm addressing the overall realities of it.

We've probably drifted too far beyond the charter of this group so, having
said that, go ahead and get the last word in if you want to and we'll close
this thread out.
 
H

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
tom wrote:
> your logic is over my head. if api certification is "the lowest
> standard for oil below which is unacceptable. ", and amsoil does not
> meet api certification, how can it be a far superior oil??
>


It may be a superior lubricant but may have a technical aspect like too much
phosphate or zinc which is above the limit set for emission tests when burnt
in significant quantity in a worn engine. That is just one example.

The API is just one standard setting body. There are many others which are
less well known such as the ACEA and the Japanese one whose name escapes me
plus engine manufactuers own standards such as Mercedes Benz who actually
set high performance standards upon which other superior standards are based
including the ACEA international ones.
Personally I would, as I suspect you would, stick with an oil that meets
higher standards as well as API standards rather than use one that does not
meet API.
Now if I was track racing then many aspects of the API compromise could be
ignored and I would have no hesitation in using the Amsoil compromise which
is biassed towards performance [or so they claim]. The paradox is that since
Amsoil does is not accredited with API certification it is unlikely to meet
any higher *official* standard either so no one really knows how good or bad
Amsoil really is, except by taking their word for it.
I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt by taking their word for it
that it is a very good oil but not to the extent that I would use it in any
of my vehicles.

I hope that explains how an oil can be excellent without being API
accredited and also why I would not generally choose to use it given a
choice of other oils that actually meet exceptionally high standards such as
mb229.5 which sets the present benchmark and which also meets API lower
standards.
There is absolutely no point in using this kind of oil [an extended drain
ultra high performance oil] whether from
Castrol/Shell/Fuchs/vehicleownbrand, unless the potential is exploited in
drain interval terms. Anything under 10,000 miles in a temperate climate and
you might as well use a good dino oil.

Huw
 
41 - 52 of 52 Posts
Top