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canuck
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2,493 Posts
We should just go back to using horses and slaves. Can't beat that economy. Hybrids are more complex than what they're worth. It's like the VW diesel cars. Even the newer .0 140hp engine STILL USES A TIMING BELT. Fuel savings goes out the door when you're told at 60K that you need to replace the timing belt for $1K. I believe it's an interference engine to boot...timing belt snaps - valves and pistons collide. Worth it? No.

Chev's Volt makes the most sense to date, as the gas engine is used only to charge the batteries. Depending on the motors being used, they too will need maintenance at some point. Today's cars are made to lease and throw away. Even the Volt is overpriced for what it is. I'd rather pay $150 a month in fuel than $70 a month in hydro and $10 in fuel to run a Volt. $35K in Canada for a Prius. No thanks. I can get a $16K economy car and it would take 9-10 years before it would cost me $19K in fuel. At least the hybrid option is there to make some feel better, even if they don't understand the manufacturing process as a whole.

If the government wanted to, they could push for hydrogen and more CNG fuel stations. There are a couple new CNG vehicles produced each year. The problem is having one CNG fuel station per 1000 square miles. Besides, internal combustion engines are only 20-30% efficient. Most of the energy is lost through heat. Of course, too much heat can do damage.

The issue with Europeans pushing for better emissions, is because they're taxed on tailpipe emissions and in some countries such as Russia, they're also taxed on engine size. North America is a long way from doing things such as this. Toll roads will increase to lower the traffic volume and overall EPA mileage will gradually increase causing manufacturers to build more efficient vehicles. HD trucks will soon require EPA testing.

It's not only inefficient power such as coal generators that tree huggers don't realize, but the industrial cost and emissions required to produce and build the batteries and electrical components.

True hybrid vehicles will only be good once all the major powers decide to write similar rules for emissions as most manufacturers sell vehicles globally, to better reduce overall manufacturing costs and complexity. It will not happen in our lifetime, but the sooner its realized the sooner states can stop spending billions on passenger train and public transit infrastructure that no one cares to ride.
 

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Subaru/Ford guy.
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1,273 Posts
I think we also need a Economic cars sub-forum with non ford discussion thread too.

Talk all cars/trucks that aren't ford:

USDM-US Domestic Market
JDM-Japanese Domestic Market
EDM-European Domestic Market

These can all be sticky threads within a non ford section discussion?
 

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Super Moderator
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7,785 Posts
360ci, you're forgetting the one big consternation with hydrogen burners, the primary effluent of burning hydrogen is water in the form of vapor. The lucky devils in the warmer southern climate won't really be concerned over this, but y'all in the Great White North, us in upstate NY, Fargo ND, and any other frigid place will have a grand old time in a traffic jam with all that water vapor condensing and freezing.

I was actually wondering why the heck hydrogen hadn't been pursued further last February while our government was having one of their green debates when I looked around in bumper to bumper traffic and said, "oh."
 

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canuck
Joined
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2,493 Posts
360ci, you're forgetting the one big consternation with hydrogen burners, the primary effluent of burning hydrogen is water in the form of vapor. The lucky devils in the warmer southern climate won't really be concerned over this, but y'all in the Great White North, us in upstate NY, Fargo ND, and any other frigid place will have a grand old time in a traffic jam with all that water vapor condensing and freezing.

I was actually wondering why the heck hydrogen hadn't been pursued further last February while our government was having one of their green debates when I looked around in bumper to bumper traffic and said, "oh."
Naw, with all the extra crude oil that will be stockpiled, we'll go back to spraying that on the roads. Forget salt. The underbody spray shops will knowingly all go under. Or, we can use something similar to the modern diesels (Urea injection) but instead of going into the injectors, this system will spray it into the tailpipe. Manufacturers can make a 50L washer fluid tank and have it slowly sprayed into the tailpipe to prevent road freezing. My old 100% bio diesel truck had an aux. heater to heat the oil before sending it to the engine. Nothing's easy anymore but for now, I'll just stick with my Durango R/T for the winter @ 11mpg.
 

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Super Moderator
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19,430 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
" 2 major problems with electricity:
1) Portability. You can't fill a tank with electricity in under 5 minutes. It's usually hours.
2) Chemical hazards. The environmental impact of the batteries far outweigh anything a petrol burner can due. If you short them, they will burn and at a higher temperature than gasoline. "

Just to add to that , I think a big problem is the range of the vehicles is very limited .
 

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Administrator
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8,178 Posts
Gonna end up having to modify the names of the 3 new sections I added yesterday. For the one like me that check the New Post section only sees News, Photos and General Chat not knowing its non Ford related.
 

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Administrator
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8,178 Posts
I like to check the New Post that way I can see everything that's been posted since my last log off.
 

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canuck
Joined
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2,493 Posts
" 2 major problems with electricity:
1) Portability. You can't fill a tank with electricity in under 5 minutes. It's usually hours.
2) Chemical hazards. The environmental impact of the batteries far outweigh anything a petrol burner can due. If you short them, they will burn and at a higher temperature than gasoline. "

Just to add to that , I think a big problem is the range of the vehicles is very limited .
I'm sure someone will win a Darwin Award for attempting this.
 
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