[Dan [Sac]]

I am strongly considering taking the step that I never thought I would - going to total engine management - can the E6k read our VAF output, or must I convert to MAF (yuck) first?

Second, can it control 6 sequential injectors?

Third, are there any 93-95 2.5L PGTs with a E6K unit? Was Justin Nenni running a Haltech?

 

[Dan [Sac]]

Ah, crap - it doesn't matter anyway.

The Haltechs cannot handle 6 sequential injectors - neither do most of the aftermarket engine management systems. Turns out that sequential injection is just an invention for fuel economy and emissions, and is not used in race applications...


Next question - can the kl-03 injectors be 'batched'? Does the ECU need to be reprogrammed for that?

I bet all this stuff I am asking is on Andrew's website, but alas, I didn't bookmark it...

 

[cybervampyre]

I may not know what i'm talking about...

But don't you second gen guys have a MAF? Could be wrong Dan, but I thought most EM computers use signals from a MAF because they're more than just the ON/OFF signals that a VAF basicly sends... And from what i've heard the conversion from VAF to MAF is extremely difficult. Good luck bro!

 

[Dan [Sac]]

The FS-series (4cyl) engines use a MAF, the KL (V6) have the VAF. The VAF output signal is a variable, non-linear voltage reading - the VAF housing also incorporates a BARO sensor and a IAT (intake air temperature) sensor. The computer then uses these readings (volume, barometric pressure, and intake temperature) to calculate the mass of the air entering the engine.

I found out that the E6K uses a speed-density system, which means its uses a Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor and Intake Air Temp (IAT) sensor for metering air flow thru the engine. So having a VAF is not the problem - having 6 sequential injectors is.

So unless I can find a way to batch the injectors in groups of 2 or 3, it looks like I'll be stuck with a simplistic Super AFC and using a 6BTM unit to control timing.

 

[cybervampyre]

Sorry for my ignorance of the 2nd gen air intake systems, but noone else replied so I had to say something:s5 Good luck with your project bro!

 

[MacDaddy]

In the olden days.......

Way back when, when fuel injection systems were mechanical (e.g. Bosch's K-jetronic), the fuel sprayed all the time. It was no big deal apparently. The metering unit worked like a VAF, but instead of making a signal to the ECU, it controlled 4 mechanical valves.
This was the system on my 1979 VW Scirocco.
I think some of the earlier EFI systems did the same.
Don't get too bound up over sequential fuel injection.

 

[BryanPendleton]

Next question - can the kl-03 injectors be 'batched'? Does the ECU need to be reprogrammed for that?

This question does not make since. . . If you are using a Haltech, then the OE ECU does not have any control over the engine operation. You simply wire the injectors and set the proper settings on the Haltech ECU for the injection firing mode you would like. . . I know you can batch them in 2 groups of 3, for the easiest setup. I am nearly positive that you can run the Haltech in an advanced mode for 3 groups of 2 injectors. . . .

When you get down to "batch" vs. "sequential" its more of a low rpm emmissions, fuel economy and ilde stability issue, because above 3000 rpm, sequential injection does you little good, because the engine cycle time is so short, that injection times quickly begin to overlap to provide adequate fuel, and by the time you get up into your power band, its probably dumping fuel just as it would be in batch mode. . . This is highly dependant on how you size your injectors though. . . If you have huge injectors, the injection times are less to deliever more fuel, so the benefits of sequential are pushed to higher rpms. But with huge injectors idle quality is a big issue. . .

It is my understanding that alot of OE manufactures ECU are only sequential up to 3000rpm . . . then begin batch fire. . .

I just dont want you to feel you have to have sequential . . . it is a much cleaner setup, but you can still have a sweet running street car with batch fire injection.

Enjoy.

 

[tim87114]

Alot of ford v-6s batch fire, for example the 3.0 in the rangers and aerostars do this. One thing to remember is how the ecu receives the inputs to make outputs. First off the Vaf or Maf may work in different ways . Some have a screen and others have a resistor hanging down. Either way, they look for a temperature drop to calculate air flow. Sort of like 1vdc drop would equal (X) amount of air. This signal drop is sent to the ecu to do the calculation. The IAT works in the same principal exept instead of air flow it is temp. When you start piling on all the other sensors, o2, map, baro they start changing exactly what you would think. First off the ecu will calculate the time span at which the injectors should stay open due to air flow and what the o2 sensor says. The IAT sensor helps determine spark advance and the IAC valve to open or close. On 3.0 obd1 cars and vans they are batch by
1-4-5 on one bank and the other bank would be 2-3-6 on the other bank. So as you can see they are opposing evenly. Also with this oppostion it allowed the ford ecu to run in self diagnostic mode to check engine compression and also run in limp home mode. By seing which bank takes longer to return to tdc using the timing sequence it will let the computer know when you have a bad cylinder. I know this has nothing to do with your original question but it's always kind of cool to learn something new. I would have to agree that todays aftermarket ecu would be able to take all this into account. But would they want to? most likely not, they were idealy designed for race applications, were some sensors might be left out. I'm not sure on that but I couldn't see a drag car using an o2 sensor, although it would take alot of guess work out of how rich the car is running.

 

[BryanPendleton]

Just about all the aftermarket engine management units that I am aware of support a closed look feedback system using O2 sensors. . . One, I don't remember which one (perhaps Motec) supports wide band O2 sensor use, and the thing will practically program itself, all the user has to do is make some passes and the ECU logs the O2 data and make fuel corrections to find tune the fuel maps. . . .

Enjoy.

 

[ASword]

What Bryan said.


If you go with an aftermarket ECU it will typically use either a MAP sensor or its own MAF for airflow measurement. The VAF will be gone, and the stock ECU will only remain to operate the pollution control functions and anything else you can't shunt to the new ECU.

It sounds like you're a serious modder, but just a word of caution: if you think an aftermarket ECU is expensive and you're counting your pennies to see if you can afford, then stay away. It will always cost more money and time than you expect. Same is true for any really extensive mods.


Hey look, its my first post here. I figured it ought to be in this thread since I was mentioned by name!

 

[gxt89]

Whether 1-6, 8, 10 or 12 cylinders, 1-2 rotors, naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged, the HALTECH E6K can control it.

I took that right off my little E6K "brochure" I got off the web. It does run off a MAP sensor metering system, but the MAP sensor itself is sold separately. I don't know why, though-just another way to make money. As for the injectors. If you are going to use this ECU, you will HAVE to wire the injectors to it. It would make no sense to get this and still make the stock ECU run the injectors. This means they will have to run under whatever system the E6K uses. it wouldn't matter if the E6K wanted to fire all 6 injectors at once, if you wire the injectors to it, they will do whatever it tells them to. What this would involve would be to disconnect the injectors completely from the stock ECU, you then hook them up to the E6K according to what 2 or 3 cylinders it wants to inject at the same time. Even if you unhooked them from all ECUs and hooked them up to a battery, they will fire, not under any control, but they will start spraying gas.