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Cougar Member
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14 Posts
What gets to me about this "Ditch the Cougar" thread is that its exists in the first place! And all the other "Ditch the _______" type threads here. Again, this whole "my Ford is better than your Ford" is childish. Again, I was expecting to meet some enthusiastic Ford owners to engage in meaningful conversations about the cars that we love... not too see some some 12 yr-old ramblings about how certain cars suck and how certain cars rule or how if they ran the Ford Motor Company everything would be right in the world (I mean, who are you kidding). This is destructive rather than constructive. I know for certain, that this happened to turn off a number of Cougar owners that checked out these forums when I told them about fordforums.com. And it is completely turning me off as well. I am a bit pissed that I disapointed them. I did not see these particular threads before I recommended fordforums.com. I still think fordforums.com is a great idea, I see a lot of potential in it, and the people that created this resource have my upmost respect. There I other aspects of these forums that I really like, such as the Ford Stories and the Australian Ford sections.

Stacy94PGT,

I know that you were defending the Cougar and I appreciate it. My post wasn't squarely aimed at you. It was meant more for Black 97 GT, Supercoupe_1993, and 96 PSE.

I was just commenting on the original Cougar and Jaguar XKE comparison. I don't think its fair to compare the current Cougar to a Jaguar if the original Cougar can't even live up to the standard the Ford advertisers compared it to. (Mind you, I was approached once by a person asking me if my car was one of those new Jaguars because of the Cougar logo... kind of flattering.) Although inevitable, the current Cougar shouldn't even be compared to the original Cougar either. Again, the car should be judged on its own merits and by not a few letters splashed on its trunk lid.

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that the original Cougar was a pretender because it wasn't available in Europe. I know that it wasn't available in Europe and that it was made just for the North American market. What I wanted to get across was that its design (or more correctly, its styling) DEFINATELY WASN'T European inspired... Ford just said it was. The original Cougar was perhaps the complete anti-thesis of what was happening in Europe at the time in terms of automotive design and that's why there wasn't a car that looked remotely like it there. Instead, it completely embodied American virtues... power, (fake) luxury, freedom, roominess, excessiveness.... The original Cougar was just about as European as the Pontiac Tempest Gran Turismo Omologato or a Texas rodeo.

About the Ferrari GTO vs Pontiac GTO. How can I call that a lie? C'mon now. Just use some common sense.
<a href="http://www.web-cars.com/gto/cdGTO.html" target="_blank">Check this out.</a> Think that the '64 Pontiac GTO could take the Ferrari in drag-race at least? I don't think so. The Ferrari made more than enough power (over 300hp from only 3.0 litres) and weighed A LOT less. Pontiac dropped a non-production 421cid Superduty engine in the car and beefed it up quite a bit especially for this head-to-head comparison. It was a head-to-head comparison but Road & Track didn't even have a Ferrari 250 GTO to test! But even with that 421cid engine, if it could beat the Ferrari in a dragrace, it would have only been by the narrowest margins and not a complete blow-out like Road & Track implied. The Ferrari would KILL the Pontiac in every other aspect of performance... but if straightline acceleration is all that matters then... Honestly, type of propaganda is very typical of American companies, especially during that era. This was nothing more than a publicity stunt by Road & Track and propaganda tactic by Pontiac.

You have to be realistic. How can any mass-produced production car, whether it is European, Japanese or American, can begin to compare itself to a multiple LeMans winner like the 250 GTO? A car that was made in a tiny factory in Maranello by handful of extremely passionate Italian engineers and craftsmen that Ford had to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and most of its engineering resources on its GT program to beat on the track. Out of all the cars Ferrari has ever built, the 250 GTO is regarded by many as the most significant. How can the original Cougar can ever compare itself to a Jaguar E-Type which was a production car incorporating and demonstrating most the technology of the infamous D-Type racer; a car that brought Jaguar multiple world championships and put them in the top echelon of sportscar manufacturers. These comparisons are all false analogies at best but more like grand delusions in my opinion. It doesn't matter whether you prefer chicken to caviar.

I can see how someone would think that I hated American cars from my last post. I have nothing against American cars. I love almost anything on four wheels. When I was living in Portugal I would fork over tons of cash to get American Ford magazines like MM&FF and Mustang Monthly every month... usually $10-15 each. I don't doubt America's technical capabilities either, but they never show it. Only one American manufacturer ever won a world championship, only one has ever won LeMans, only one has ever been successful in Formula 1. You can guess why I'm a Ford fan now eh. If you take any European manufacturer, each car in their range are exciting driver-oriented vehicle whether its a econobox or an all-out performance machine.... and that includes Ford's European range. With American brands you have one or two outstanding cars such as the Mustang Cobra, the Corvette, and the LS in their line-up. The rest are either appliances to feed the masses or big profit-makers to keep the shareholders happy. Sure, I prefer European cars but it doesn't mean that I do not like American cars or Japanese cars. Usually, I'm far more critical of Japanese cars than US cars.

If you think I sound a bit harsh, I'm sorry. That's how I talk to everybody. I'm not shy about stating my opinions. Just ask bigmek or PGTdriver who I know through NECO. Now, as usual, I probably pissed off some guy with a RWD car and a big V8 under the hood. Should I expect some e-mails from people on these forums challenging me to a race (always a dragrace too) or questioning my manhood just like in the Cougar newsgroup on usenet? I hope not. ;)
 

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Fern, not to be a jerk or anything but you need to move to a warmer climate. Canda is way to cold. If your able to speak your mind others should be able to as well. Yes, I do belive that the title was harsh. I'd be pissed as well. I've been snubbed twice on here for having a Probe. But that doesn't bother me, everone is entitled to their opinon. One should be able to say what they think about a car in a Public forum. It just depends on how tactful one is.
The only car I've put down is the Focus. I just don't like it, if others do good for them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just think it sucks that the Cougar, a sleek good looking car. Gets, no advertisement, low after market, and about the same horse power as mine. Meaning mine is 7yrs. old versus one thats only 2 and a half years old. Sorry, but Ford should put some of their thoughts into the Cougar rather than so much on the Focus. As a matter of fact that one of the reasons I bought my PGT is because the Cougar had about the same amout of horses. I thought to myself should I buy a new car ? Have another 4 to 5 years of payments or a used one that I can buy straight up and have no payments and just worry about repairs.

I'm not getting into a history argument with you because with our personalities, it would go on forever. Even though European car makers had a good 20 to 30 yr. jump on Americans as far as performance goes. I know how Ferraris are made, Sorry just had to put that in there.I'm not even going to bring up the 79 Mustang and Porsche duel.:D
BTW, the comment about being a Ford CEO was just joking around so that some people could get more numbers for posting. I do think J. Nasser sucks, well him and a few others and should have been replaced after the Firestone deal.
Your're the one who compared chicken with caviar. I was just letting you know which I prefer. :D Have a good one, and try to relax. It's all good.
 

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Thunderbird Member
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55 Posts
its not that i dont like the cougar, it just felt wierd to me, at the time i had a cougar, a 1991 V6 mn12. and going from a medium-large V6 RWD car to a FWD smaller one just didnt feel like a cougar. i agree it is a good car, i just wish they had called it something else and kept the mn12 cougar.
 

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Probe SE Member
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Geesh, I wasn't expecting such bickering. I was mearly stating that Ford shouldn't have repaced the Probe. Rather than a making an attempt to keep the Probe alive they gave up on it. The new cougar (which is a dramatic change from the previous one) fit right in the spot where a new Probe would have been. Granted it's a Mercury but it's the closest thing Ford makes that the would-be new Probe buyer would look at. In case you were wondering, yes I have driven a new Cougar, and i didn't like it. The cloth seats were uncomfortable, the throttle drove me crazy..it didn't start to rev untill you were on it about 2-3". I don't HATE the Cougar or owners of them. I just didn't care for Ford giving up on what could have been a better car. Every one is entitled to there own oppinion. I think mine is a valid one. Fern..My ford isn't better than your Ford..I just happen to like mine more. Thanks to evey one who took my post seriously and submitted meaningfull input
 

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A-Team Member
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263 Posts
Okay a few words in this topic have changed to reflect the feelings that the authors meant it to be interpretted. I think this topic is very valid and should not be closed. Sadly the Probe is gone. Nothing will change that. The cougar is sometimes considered a replacement for the ford probe, but others think that the ZX2 is the true ford replacement. Personally I like them all, but I have begun to worry. When the cougar was released it was heavily advertised. Currently, I haven't seen any commercials for it. The Probe suffered when ford stopped much of the advertising for it, and I believe that the Cougar may have a similar fate in the United States.

As for this topic everyone has their own opinions on what cars are better. There is nothing wrong with ford vs. ford post here but please keep your posts mature. Not everyone has the correct information when they make a post. Sometimes there are things that are assumed incorrectly and other times they have been given incorrect information. If you find someone posting something incorrect, please do you part to help them understand the truth. Also make sure you do this in an adult manner.
 

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Ok this post has gotten a little out of hand.

I am not going to take any sides in this matter and stand as an outsider in the whole deal. I am not a ford owner < I know that is another thread > and I think that there will always be, no matter where you go, those that will come on a forum, newsgroup, mail list that will say my car is better than yours. They will say that this or that car is ugly as sin. This or that car should never have been produced. The thing is...is that you are not going to get away from that. Even on a Make specific board be it Probes, F150's, Ferrari's, Corvettes or camaros. You are going to get those that will come on to a site and say what they want.

I would love to have a site that this does not take place, but alas it wont happen. That would require moderation to Nth xtreme. I dont want that here. I want a easy going board. Please, understand this is a gathering place of opinionated people. Just be thankfull this is not a relegion board. ;) It will be a sad day when users have to come on here and have the posts moderated to the point of will this content offend this car owner or that car owner.

Fern:

I know that there are those that will read one thread and from there make an opinionated decision on the board and that is there right, but should they not look the entire site over and then make a decision? Yes, I know that one thread or a few words can displace users and I feel that is a shame that they can not overlook the one or two threads on a forum. They have to understand as I stated above there are many opinions and each one they may not like, but they have to give the site itself a chance and not judge the site from one thread. If they have concerns please have them address them to myself or Tim. I would like to have the users here enjoying the site and contributing to the forums in a helpful way if possible.

I understand where you are coming from as to being offended as to what is said. I saw that in the post, but I reread it and I can see another point of view that is being said.

I have to say this !! Talk to me guys. !! I dont want people leaving here hating each other not coming back because something he said or she said. This site was set up FOR ALL FORD Owners to come and discuss their thoughts and views on their favorite vehicle....A Ford vehicle.

Take a look at things from the sites view. We are trying to bring together the Ford Community as a whole not fragmented off and split away. I think that as a whole this site has the potential<yes I am tooting my own horn> and there are going to be hicups in the way things are set up and are running.

I am not going to close this thread. I have to say that we can all get this site to the potential that it has. Please, let me know anytime if you have a problem, concern or thought. My mailbox is always open.

John Oliver
Site Owner

email: [email protected]
AIM: LunaticSS1
 

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LunaticSS said:
Please, understand this is a gathering place of opinionated people. Just be thankfull this is not a relegion board. ;)


AIM: LunaticSS1
Praise the Lord for that. :D
 

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Cougar Member
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14 Posts
Perhaps my colleagues should have looked the entire site over before leaving. I'm a Ford fan first and a Ford owner second. I enjoyed reading the other parts of the board and if there is ever a European Ford section, I'll be participating on a daily basis for sure. I'm certainly not going to leave. Most people are Ford owners first though, so when a Cougar owner comes here he/she is going to look for stuff on their car first... If anything, I wanted to get across to these users that make stupid "Ditch the Cougar" or "Ditch the Focus" type threads are doing more harm than good because they are isolating these Ford owners, making them feel as they're not welcomed here and that they're car is not good enough for these forums. I know that most Probe owners probably have experienced this themselves... First impressions are very important especially for a relatively new message board like this one.

I would hate to think that this board is going to turn into one of those "complete Ford resources" that only cater to Mustangs, F-150s, T-Birds or whatever the majority of users drive. I would hope that if I wanted to discuss, say, the '68-69 OSI 20m TS, that I could do so without being unconfortable because its not a particularly popular Ford or that its not a car with an established name or emblem that looks good on a baseball cap.

I do apologize for not testing the waters first and not getting a feel for the atmosphere here before posting. I also realize that my posts are extremely long and I know that is bad netiquette. But was I wrong in giving my 2 cents on these types of threads, especially one that I have some personal insight on being a Cougar owner and a former Probe owner? I am opinionated yes, but I try to back up my points with reasoning and not something abstract like "its just that the Cougar made me feel wierd". You all have the right to your opinions too, and I want to see your arguments. When is debating such a bad thing? I never said that you couldn't speak your minds... I just stated my opinions and thoughts.

I'm not expecting that moderators to moderate these boards to the Nth degree, and I never wanted that. The users of this resource should feel some ownership to it and moderate themselves and part of that is thinking about all the other users and potential users of the message board before posting. If someone lights a fire, then the users should put it out... and they were. Many were doing a good job in defending the Cougar and again, I really appreciate that, but nobody addressed what I thought was the heart of the matter; these "Ditch the ____________' threads. I rather talk about Fords on this message board and not waste time defending Cougars, Focii, Capris, Pintos, Mustang II's, etc. because some users do not perceive them to be "real Fords".... There are many Ford vehicles that do not appeal to me either but I'm not going to start to disrespecting them or their owners. If this topic didn't come up now, it would have come up later on... trust me.
 

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Probe SE Member
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I admit the title of the thread was harsh, it was too cut and dry. I should have expalined my reasoning better too. Next time I will try to think before I type and include some thoughts to back my opinions. You know what they say...learn from your mistakes.
 

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Cougar Member
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13 Posts
probe and Cougar

as a person who as owned 2 Probes and currently own a New Edge Cougar... i must say that i like both cars... and while some of you may feel that the cougar should not have replaced the Probe... well the cougar is going to be gone now too :(
so i guess there is really nothing for anyone to argue about... but i think it's a big mistake on behalf of the CO... they never really did anything to promote the cougar and should open their eyes and see what a devoted following it has developed (much like the Probe) in such a short period of time ... if it's true that ppl learn from their mistakes hopefully they will learn from these and not continue to take away the vehicles that have such good following... the CO is only hurting itself..
 
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