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Ford Member
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I was just wondering what specifically are the differnces between the 3 sixes?

Is there really all that much difference mechanically?
 

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The VCT has a little bit extra down low, but in reality the difference is very small and I for one can't notice much difference between the three.
 

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Ford Member
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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting,

I also couldn't tell the difference in between the XR6HP ute I drove a while and my plain old forte. It seemed faster but I would think that is was more due to the stiffer ride and more interesting exhaust note from the XR6.

What is needed to add the VCT? Is it a different head or just a different chip or something completely different?

But I guess it just goes to show how misleading hp/kw figures can be. You would expect the VCT 6 to blow the doors of the standard 6 but the reality would probably be somewhat different.
 

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Australian BA XR6 Falcon
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TheBow said:
Interesting,
But I guess it just goes to show how misleading hp/kw figures can be. You would expect the VCT 6 to blow the doors of the standard 6 but the reality would probably be somewhat different.
Don't forget the VCT XR6 has to haul around an extra 80 odd kg's for the IRS, VCT donk in a HP would be capablle of removing doors :s5

Kieron
 

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BSR Field Agent
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578 Posts
Hey Guys, I drive Fortes at work during the day. An AU1 and an AU2. I don't know what sixes you are comparing against the VCT but I can say without bias that my VCT does blow the doors off the fortes.. Then it out handles out steers and out rides the fortes.

In the wet the Fortes are downright dangerous the rear tyre and I say tyre (meaning one) breaks loose at the slightest excess in power or when it is loaded in a corner.

IRS and LSD make the VCT even though it cops the additional 80 kilos.

Nipper.....
 

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Australian XR6 Member
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132 Posts
I've got to agree with Nipper 110%.

I recently upgraded from an AU1 Futura to an AU2 XR6 VCT, and there is no way I would/could ever go back.
 

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Tickford Ruled; FPV Rocks
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Kieron said:


Don't forget the VCT XR6 has to haul around an extra 80 odd kg's for the IRS, VCT donk in a HP would be capablle of removing doors :s5

Kieron

Very true! Motor Mag claims the HP is marginally faster than the VCT (due to HP's better power to weight ratio).

But there's not much in it between the HP and VCT in performance or even handling IMO unless you're talking about a very, very, very bad road; and even then only mid-corner where the VCT has less arse pitch. The Tickford live axle is a great rear end, given it's inherent limitations. The only complaint about it that I have is the day to day harsh ride (which I don't mind but others might) and poor traction from hard starts off the line, especially in the wet. VCT's offer better traction off the line and are more comfortable day to day.

To be honest, I reckon the good part about the XR6 VCT is the rear end, as opposed to any great strides over the HP in the engine department. Think about it: the HP runs a standard Forte exhaust, whereas the VCT runs a sports exhaust. If you put a sports exhaust on a HP, you more than make up the kw difference between the HP and VCT. I have heard some people say the HP is actually detuned to make the VCT output look better, since all previous XR6's ran sports exhausts. So where is the gain from having VCT on the engine? The only benefit I can see is a slightly smoother top end.

But both would blow the doors off a standard Falcon.
 

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What I just realised also, Is that the AU3 XR6HP DOES NOT HAVE LSD !!!!!

Im a little [email protected]#$ed off about this as its a $350 option !!!!
They should have made the car $350 more expensive, and made it standard.

For more details, see "Which Falcon is the Best" Thread in the Pub section

I can imagine a Series 3 XR6HP in the wet..... Not pretty......
 

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Tickford Ruled; FPV Rocks
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Xyphoid said:
What I just realised also, Is that the AU3 XR6HP DOES NOT HAVE LSD !!!!!

Im a little [email protected]#$ed off about this as its a $350 option !!!!
They should have made the car $350 more expensive, and made it standard.

For more details, see "Which Falcon is the Best" Thread in the Pub section

I can imagine a Series 3 XR6HP in the wet..... Not pretty......
This is a disgrace
 

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BSR Field Agent
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Hey Guys another thing to think of is the Gear Ratios.

The XR6 and XR6 VCT run different Gear ratios to a standard falcon. And the VCT runs a diferent ratio to the HP. (Not much but there is a difference) I'm talking manual transmission here. I agree that the HP with a decent exhaust set up can match the KW's of the VCT but remember that you must measure apples with apples, put a non factory decent exhaust set up on a VCT and see what you then have. Remember the VCT carries dual exhausts (extra weight there as well).

The big thing between the HP and VCT is getting the power to the ground. The VCT is able to put all its power down through two wheels and tyres via LSD (Standard) HP not so. The HP has the same problem as the forte (Unless you have a really tight diff) it sends its power down through a live rear end. You end up with one wheel driving the whole car.

Ratios: HP VCT

1st 3.35 3.05
2nd 1.93 1.99
3rd 1.29 1.29
4th 1.00 1.00
5th 0.73 0.72
Final Drive 3.45 3.45

Before you ask!! I don't have the Forte ratios at home...

Nipper...........
 

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Ford Member
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Discussion Starter #11
Guys, Guys,

I wasn't saying that an forte would ever beat an XR6VCT/HP as te differences are plainly obvious on the first drive side by side.

I'm just talking engines here.

The wet weather performance bothers me greatly actually in the forte and I guess it's not that easy o fix.

The reason I ask is that I am going a set of 17's + lowered spinngs,shocks if I need it and a spotrs exhaust for the forte.

IS it possible to fit an LSD cheaply to a forte???
 

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Driving with Nipper in same car or following etc......it seems to me that the VCT comes into its own at the top end. After Nipper passed me late one night on the freeway while i was doing 160, Nipper passed me like i was going backwards only confirms this!
 

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TheBow said:


The reason I ask is that I am going a set of 17's + lowered spinngs,shocks if I need it and a sports exhaust for the forte.

IS it possible to fit an LSD cheaply to a forte???
Mate, I know what you meant, I was trying to explain that no matter what you do to your engine. If you cannot get as much of the power your engine makes to the ground you lose out.

All the things you mention above are all going to benefit you.
If you go sports exhaust go the whole way and also fit headers, then you will get a great result, not just a good one.

I believe LSD conversion will mean a new diff not just internals.
I also take it your Forte is an Auto.??

Someone please set it straight if this is not correct.


Nipper...........
 

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The cat in the hat
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Hi TheBow, wake me up monday morning when I have a catalogue in front of me......should be able to replace the diff carrier assembly with an LSD centre...(not including crown wheel & pinion) these were available for all models XF to EL so should be available for AU as well..just havent checked:eek:o1: .....anyway will check monday if i'm awake and will post results then...
 

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Ford Member
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Discussion Starter #15
Cool, if its not too expensive then it could be a good mod as the standard diff is pretty bad in wet conditions. LSD or some other traction control should be standard across the range as all of the engines hae heaps of torque.
 

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Australian Falcon Member
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I think the "top end" comment regarding the VCT is pretty much spot on - that area of "tune" is not normally used by most drivers (and I'm not talking about just going to the 6500 limit for gear changes - I mean keeping it up there all the time) - but really makes a difference if you use it. The Broad Band Manifold doesn't even switch to short runners until 3800rpm (I don't know when the VCT switches but it would have to be somewhere up there too). Also I guess the VCT torque figures are up right across the graph? - ie. the VCT will lose less performance to load.

Driving an engine in the upper rev range is a whole different kettle of fish to "normal" driving - and I don't just mean running it to the 6500 line for each gear change - I mean using gears at any given time which maintain at least 3500 on the dial. I learned this the hard way when I had a 5.0 VC Commodore with all the goodies and wasn't overly impressed with it until someone told me to try driving it like a sporty 1.8 litre. It was like the cubic capacity of the thing doubled instantly! - and of course I pranged it within a week (most 18 year olds with no training probably would prang 300Hp fairly quickly). What brought me undone was damp road and no LSD on a curve.
 

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Nipper said:

I agree that the HP with a decent exhaust set up can match the KW's of the VCT but remember that you must measure apples with apples, put a non factory decent exhaust set up on a VCT and see what you then have. Remember the VCT carries dual exhausts (extra weight there as well).



Nipper...........
I would be interested to find out if one fitted the standard VCT exhaust to the HP, whether the HP would match the VCT on kilowatts. I have a sneaking suspicion it would. If you fit an aftermarket exhaust on a HP, you'll get a lot more than 172kw at the flywheel. More like 180 kw. Rob Herrod has said that for aftermarket mods, the HP engine is a better platform to start with (I'm not sure why though). But your point about gear ratios is a valid one. Each set of gear ratios is set to make the most out of each engine setup, hence XR8, VCT and HP run slightly different ratios, with the two XR6's running different (but similar) ratios as you have demonstrated.
 

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Nipper said:
The big thing between the HP and VCT is getting the power to the ground. The VCT is able to put all its power down through two wheels and tyres via LSD (Standard) HP not so. The HP has the same problem as the forte (Unless you have a really tight diff) it sends its power down through a live rear end. You end up with one wheel driving the whole car.

Nipper...........
Do you mean an AUIII XR6HP without LSD?

I've never experienced one wheel driving my HP from a hard start (cos of the LSD). I smoke em both up!!!
 

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HP Dude said:


Do you mean an AUIII XR6HP without LSD?

I've never experienced one wheel driving my HP from a hard start (cos of the LSD). I smoke em both up!!!
HP Dude, LSD was also a Factory Option in the AU2 as well. $350 optional extra. It did not come standard. I have the XR Specifications Brochure here from when I purchased my VCT which states so. If you have a HP with LSD then it is fitted with the optional LSD.

Nipper..
 

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Nipper said:


HP Dude, LSD was also a Factory Option in the AU2 as well. $350 optional extra. It did not come standard. I have the XR Specifications Brochure here from when I purchased my VCT which states so. If you have a HP with LSD then it is fitted with the optional LSD.

Nipper..
With AUI it was standard. But I'm not impressed they made it an option for the later models. Should be standard on all XR's IMO.
 
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