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ST170ish
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610 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
EEC-IV whats the go with this set up on the efi302's(XH1998)can I change the cam/springs/rockers without to much trouble.Are they really self learning or will I need a chip?How far could I go with the standed AOD trans before it needs to be beefed up?Who in adelaide SA would be the best to get this work done?
 

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I want a turtle!
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Hi,

Are you sure you have a EEC 4?? (your car should have the EEC 5)

The EEC5 will handle these mods a little better than a EEC4. (the EEC4 will not like this AT ALL - it does NOT learn)

I recently got these same mods (plus a few extra) done to my ED XR8 (EEC 4 + Unichip) and the car would not run right until I got the Unichip retuned. (Stalling, backfiring, hunting at idle etc etc)

One of the guys in the club also got similar mods to his EL XR8 (EEC 5) that would not run quite right either.. He eventually got a GT computer for his car, and now its running sweet.

Your best bet would be to get a reprogrammable chip (such as the Unichip) before you get these mods.
 

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300+rwkw DC LTD Member
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1,622 Posts
Chips

I put a Unitorque in mine (EE4) and it didn't help at all. She runs the same with or without it. I even when as far as sending the computer thto them with a detailed list of mod's and still nothing.

I'm gunna wait untill I've finished playing. Probably get another one.
 

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I want a turtle!
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Re: Chips

LTDHO said:
I put a Unitorque in mine (EE4) and it didn't help at all. She runs the same with or without it. I even when as far as sending the computer thto them with a detailed list of mod's and still nothing.

I'm gunna wait untill I've finished playing. Probably get another one.
I think thats where a real time reprogrammable chip will come in handy.

Chiptorque 'reprogrammable' chips arent really suited to a individual car. They are programmed based on the type of mods have (and assumming all engines are the same, and all cams are the same, and all roller rockers are the same.....)

Unichips are pretty good. They are programmed while the car is on the dyno. I watched mine get programmed by the guys at corydon autosports the other week. 2.5 hours on the dyno!! They where holding the revs at a certain point, adjusting the air and fuel ratios to get the best responce, and then taking it up another 200 revs and doing it over again!!

I know the Unichip is a bit more expensive than other chips (about the $1000 mark) but in my opinion its worth it, cos you can keep the chip through ALL the mods you get!!
 

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Rolfy72, are you sure you have an AOD gearbox? The AOD is usually found behind US 302's.
XR8Chic & LTDHO, I'm surprised to hear about the EEC-IV is harder to tune. The EEC-V has OB-II which should be less friendly as it has more emissions calibrations than EEC-IV.
In the US, EEC-IV was being used right up till the introduction of the 4.6 which uses EEC-V. I know that certain EEC-IV modules were better for performance than other IV's. I forget the IV ID number but there was an EEC-IV module than hardly pulled out any timing during gear shifts and tuners made very good power from it. The EEC's are programmed to pull out timing during gearshifts so not to shock load the transmission too much. It is very hard to alter this programming unless you have access to EPEC or the new Flash EPROMS used in current modular V8 EEC.
 

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ST170ish
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610 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
MrGTHO its got the standard 4sp auto(I thought they were AOD's)XR8chic it is EEc5! sorry.So whats the story when people say about the self learning mode?
 

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Australian Falcon Member
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663 Posts
Whats the lowdown with the Wolf3D computer system? would it be cheaper in the long run to yank the inflexible EEEC system in favour for the Wolf computer?

I guess it'd take a LOT of programming, but if you change the TB or springs or cam it'd be easier to go back and rewrite the ROM than to yank the chip, wait a few days with the baby in the shed while these guys re-write the chip..

just a thought :)
 

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Australian Ford Member
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EEc-IV

Not sure where some of you are getting your info from but the EEC-IV MAF system has the cabability to easily handle a huge number of changes such as cams, bigger TB's etc etc and make some serious HP numbers without the need to do any reprogramming. The appropriate sensors will read the changes and make adjustments accordingly.
 

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rolfy72 said:
MrGTHO its got the standard 4sp auto(I thought they were AOD's)XR8chic it is EEc5! sorry.So whats the story when people say about the self learning mode?
Rolfy72, I wouldn't actually say self-learning. The EEC will still make the calls even if you do changes to the engine. But this depends on a few things. The relationship between injector size and mass air sensor controls the whole EEC. When the engine leaves the factory the 5.0 has 19pound injectors and a 65(?)mm mass air sensor. If you do some changes to the injector and fit 24 pound injectors the mass air sensor will read more air flow and the EEC will tell the injector to dump more fuel. Being a bigger injector than what the EEC thinks it is too much fuel will enter the combustion chamber resulting in a too rich reading in the O2 sensor. The EEC will check it's tables and think to lean out the mix by closing the injector a bit faster. This is where the problems start because in the EEC system there is the standard factory settings which it reads from and compares to the current engine settings. It has in built allowances for engine degradation as the engine gets on in years. Because the injector:mas ratio is wrong the EEC wrong s wrong and the engine behaves so.
This is a very simple explanation because there are many other decisions made by the EEC. You have to remember that most of the EEC operations is for emissions control not performance. I used to have a list of what MAS goes with each injector size somewhere. I'll have to dig it up and post it.
 

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ST170ish
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Discussion Starter #11
ausxf it say's EEc V on the air box.
Mr GTHO can the eccv be chipped,will the eccv's learning functions work with a aftermarket chip(what about the XR8's chip is it the same?)Would the eecv be OK if I change the standard extractors to pacemaker's with a single 3" system(already has a 3" system from the main collector back!)
Any info on the trans?the trans code on the compliance plate has a "W" if thats any help?is that the same code as the EL sedan and xr8.
 

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300+rwkw DC LTD Member
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iv or v

EF was the first to have eec-v. My mate has a EF XR6 series one with a eec v. If the eec-iv is a learning computer, did I waist my money on getting a chip??
 
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As ozrunner has said the EEC4 can handle some mods without reprogramming it.
If you start putting bigger cams, injectors & modifying heads etc then it's a different story.

The AOD is a US trans it's basically a C4 gearbox with an extra gear and is not electronic .
I've been told it is a much better gearbox to modify and more performance parts is available than our BTR trans.
 

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rolfy72 said:
ausxf it say's EEc V on the air box.
Mr GTHO can the eccv be chipped,will the eccv's learning functions work with a aftermarket chip(what about the XR8's chip is it the same?)Would the eecv be OK if I change the standard extractors to pacemaker's with a single 3" system(already has a 3" system from the main collector back!)
The EEC doesn't have a removable chip as such. Chip tuners place a piggyback module into the port of the EEC and the module intercepts signals coming in from sensors and alters them so they are friendly to the EEC. Whether your car needs a chip depends on what you have done to the engine and whether you have affected the driveabitiy with your mods..
You can do whatever you want to the exhaust system as long as it has a bung for the O2 sensor.
I think I should enlarge on the learning capabilities of the EEC. Cross out 'learning' and replace it with 'adaptive'.
Every EEC system since 1986 has adaptive strategy. Every 10 minutes or so the EEC stores in its memory how the you are driving the car.
Adaptive strategy conitnually shifts the base calibrations to compensate for changes in barometric pressure, intake air temperature, fuel compensation, small drifts in sensors and actuators. The EEC has already strategies stored in ROM how the base (test) engine responded to these sensor inputs. Adaptive strategy looks how your engine is currently responding to these sensor inputs and to your driving style.
Adaptive strategy (AS) is a long-term correction based on repeated short term corrections. Eg, if the O2 sensor keeps sending rich mixture signals as short term correction under certain rpm/load signals. The EEC control module notes these repeated short term corrections and shifts the base calibrations for that rpm/load combination toward lean. The EEC has 'learned' that this engine needs less fuel than the test engine under the same conditions.
With short term correction , AS can apply corrective factors learned during a few milliseconds of transition during acceleration and decceleration to correct for dynamic changes and driver differences. Limiting AS in its correction prevents shifting calibrations to unsafe of improper fuel injection or spark timing. Eg, If the engine was set to run too rich, within an hours driving, accleration and decceleration , during normal city driving the control module will adapt and reduce the over rich situation.
A common situation with AS is that the system adapts to street driving. When you want to race the car at the drag strip the EEC still thinks it is on the street. You need to run the strip a few times for the EEC to re-adapt to the drag strip.
Another feature of AS is that it is stored in KAM ( keep alive memory). When you disconnect the battery lead the KAM will lose it's adaptive memory. A modified car could behave unnormal for about 10 minutes until the AS stores some recent memory.
 

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As far as I know, the AOD is a 4 speed auto they put into the mustangs. The only switch required (except start and reverse) is an external one for the over drive (4th). I was also told is is not neerly as strong as a C4 and that is why my XE never got one..
 

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Australian Ford Member
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What HO is saying is - drive you car for a couple of hundred ks on varied roads/revs after you've fiddled with it. You may find you don't need a 'chip' or EMC mods.
Right?;)
 

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ST170ish
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Discussion Starter #17
Unichip..

So is it worth getting a unichip comp for me ute as later I would like to do some work,heads/cam etc etc.Does $1300 fitted and dyno'ed sound about right?Or could I get better h/p spending the money on something else?
 

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Personally, I would spend the money on a dyno session and get the EEC running right b4 resorting to a chip. If you get someone to check that all the codes and voltages are right with the sensors you would be a long way in front.
And as IIV8II had said, a bit of driving allows the EEC to adapt. He is a smart fellow IIV8II!
 

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Owner Of Tommy Turbo
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i have documentation here to say eec-iv DOES learn. its not the learning capabilities that are the main dif between eec-4 and eec-5 anyway. as if Ford would ever improve something that would benefit aftermarket tuners............cmon, think guys, lol.
 
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