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Australian EL Falcon XR6 Member
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Discussion Starter #1
I have just bought a second hand December 97 ELK XR6. The car is in excellent condition with approximately 64,000 km's on the clock.

Since purchase, a month ago i have had a consistent problem with the idle.

It seems to be rough at all temperatures but especially at operating temperature.

My local Ford dealer, Brad Garlick in Sydney, said that this rough idle was a characteristic of the Tickford engine in the XR6 because it has a lumpy cam.

I went away and had the spark plugs,air filter distributer cap and ignition leads replaced.

I also took it to a company in granville called Paratune to have the car tuned, the engine management system checked and that injectors cleaned. Nothing improved the rough idle problem.

I took the car back and asked Paratune to check the engine. They did a compression test and a leak test, they tested the CO2 and mixtures etc. The engine seems to be in excellent condition.The car accelerates well and is nice to drive

Paratune agree it's running rough but have no idea why. Because I do not know mnuch about these cars, I was wondering whether these cars do run characteristically rough and thought that someone here might be able to tell me or point me in the right direction in terms of solving the problem.

Brad Garlick, the dealer has not been much help. I was wondering whether I should call Tickford themselves and see if I can not get a technical person to have a look at the car.

Hopefully, someone here has the answer. I'm getting really frustrated because my car warrenty runs out soon and if it is an engibe problem I will not be covered. At this point I cannot identify a tuning or an engine problem and I am at a loss as to what to do!

HELP!!!!!
 

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Hi Jason

I have a EL2 XR8 with the same thing took it to ford did all the tests but still the same,ford told me thats the way it is.

Matt
 

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Jason,

I wouldn't think that the problem with the idle was because of the cam in a XR6, because the cam is very mild. I had a 4.1 EFI Ghia that had a similar problem and the things that made it run rough was the following;

1. Faulty injector

2. Dirty throttle body

3. Faulty spark plug leads.

The first two only a very good EFI specialist can really help you there. The last one you can have a check yourself. Open the bonnet and run the car in complete darkness at operating temp and see if you can see any arking around the leads. If you do then your leads are stuffed and if they are original then it would not be a bad idea to replace then anyway.

I hope you find this some help as a Ford 6 cylinder is usually a very well balanced motor.

Peter.
 
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Yeah, you beat me to it Peter! I was going to suggest throttle body or MAF, but you mentioned Jason that they checked the ratios etc. Hmm, bit of a tricky one. The 6 isn't inherently rough at idle, so I wouldn't believe anyone who said so. Keep us posted!

A bit sad not to see you in the Eels lineup this season ;-) Go Parra!

Mike
 
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Good call there. my XR6 never had a rough idle. Brad Garlick service would tell you anything! Leads first and biggest problem on all Falcons. Should see how many are in warranty room. Then check TB and injectors.
 

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Experimental Racer#6
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I HOPE THIS WILL HELP!
I HAVE AN ED XR6 MANUAL, THE IDLE WAS STARTING TO GET VERRY ROUGH. THEN THE CAR WAS GETTING HARDER TO START(FIVE OR SIX CRANKS) WHERE IT HAD ALWAYS STARTED FIRST HIT.

THEN THREE DAYS AGO I JUST PULLED OUT OF A SERVO WHEN SHE DIED. NO SPARK.

IT ENDED UP BEING THE COIL. GOT IT REPLACED AND SHE PURRS LIKE A NEW ONE. STARTS FIRST GO ASWELL.

CHEERS
KERRY
 
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check t.p.s[throttle position senser] voltage key on engine off @ idle should read .98 volt.With multy meter.Check to see if voltage increases as u open throttle progresivly.Then check carbon,dirt around idle air bypass motor on throttle body.There are two long screws that hold it on.Check and clean.Check ALL earth fittings also.Check hoses,manifold leaks.Even injector o rings.
 

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Hi Jason
I have 97 July EL XR6. It had rough idle since new. Like a random regular miss a beat sort of thing. Alto Ford (where purchased) said that it was normal for this model, so I accepted it without question.
It accellerates well, cruises well etc easy to start usually first go BUT the initial take off was like a dead spot and then suddenly it would pick up. This got progressively worse during the winter months so it would splutter a couple of seconds before it took off.
I thought maybe I should idle it a few minutes before driving off to allow it to warm up a little but this had little effect.
Last winter I was fed up with it so I got a new set of plugs Ford Motorcraft AGS23CC and it actually got worse?? How can this be?
I checked the plug insulator inner length to ground (heat path), approx 6mm. This is a cold plug (standard for XR6).
I tried a set of normal heat range Bosch WR9LCX and Hey Presto! no more rough idle, no more cold start hesitation. Also tried Champion RN13LYCC which I prefer because of extended tip should be better for combustion.
Both these plugs had 13mm heat path.
Perhaps if your're constantly in the high rpm the colder plug would be ok but I found that for mostly commuting work and the occasional rev up the expressway the warmer plugs are better.
Any one else with similar experiences?
Regards
Geoff
 

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Australian EF XR6 Member
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155 Posts
Hi Guys

I have had two EF XR6's, one from new, the current one second hand - they both exhibited the same rough idle that has been mentioned here.

Haven't tried the different plugs yet, but just about everything else has been changed.

Mike, sorry to be picky, but the 6's use MAP, and so don't have MAF!

Simon
 

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Australian EL Falcon XR6 Member
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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks guys for aal the help! Slim I have had the leads replaced but what is the TB is that the timing belt?

Also can someone tell me what the MAP is?

I've now contacted Ford customer service and they say that there is a 'Rough idle" issue with the XR6 . They are going to have there technical people call Brad Garlic....what will come of it I am uncertain.

Keep those ideas coming though. I have had the injectors cleaned as well by the way!!!!!

Thanks once agin I did not realise people would be so helpful!

Jason
 

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Australian EL Falcon XR6 Member
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Discussion Starter #12
Paul.....Just a quick question for you mate. Should the voltage go up when you increase the throttle or not. That was not clear. What would actually cause a rough idle here?

You obviously think that it could be an electrical problem!

Cheers

Jason
 

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Australian EF XR6 Member
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155 Posts
Jason

Would be very interested if you could keep us up to date with what Ford do to correct this problem.

MAP stands for Manifold Air Pressure.

The XR6's don't actually measure the amount of air flowing into the engine as the XR8's do, rather they calculate the air flow by using a calculation based on Manifold Air Pressure, Air temp, Engine RPM, Throttle position and a thing called the 'volumetric effiency' of the engine.

The main differences are that while direct measurement of the mass of air (like the 8's) is more accurate (and some would say better able to cope with modifications to the engine), the mass air meter imposes a restriction on the air flow into the engine, possibly robbing the engine of power. This is why you will notice many of the guys with XR8's talking about using larger Mass Air Sensors.

The Ford EECV computer is supposed to be very good at learing, so the problems with MAP not working as well when the engine has been modified are not as significant as they are with other manufacturers.

Hope that helps
 
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Hi Buddy the t.b=throttle body.T.p.s [throttle position senser]The whole system works on differences in voltage.From under one volt to five v. at wide open throttle.The computor advances spark too from these settings[one of them]yes it should go up progressivly.Thats why it is so important to have GOOD earths.Another thing if the battery has one stuffed cell,the alternator can over charge to 17 volts throwing out all other voltages.o/k Thats what I have found out the hard way.Both connections at battery are important too.The dealers usualy outsource that work too.
 

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JOHNSXR6
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No of a guy who had the same prob at newcastle who happens to work for ford and they replaced his computer and not only did the prob go away but he recieved more grunt, and word has it that its a common computer glitch, although my XR6 runs as smooth as a baby's landing pad its just the luck of the draw, if its the computer you want that checked out before waranty ends, it sounds like you have thrown a lot of bucks beating around the bush, try and loan some one elses computer and see if it make a differance.
 

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Australian EL Falcon XR6 Member
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Discussion Starter #16
Hi Guys...

Here is a quick up-date. This matter is still in the hands of Ford Technical who have classified this as a 'Pace case'...whatever that means. I have now also called Tickford Vehicle Engineering themselves because if they don't know WHO DOES!!!

Spoke to a really helpful guy there called Darren on their technical help desk who said that they have identified a rough idle issue with the XR6 and that this problem is related to something in the idle solenoid called the idle control valve. (This is possibly an Engine Management Issue)??

As yet Tickford have not offered me the solution but have said that I should get the Servfice Advisor I am dealing with at Brad Garlick Ford to liase with them and they will talk them through the fix!

I took this information along with a copy of all the replies I have received from you guys on the bulletin board (THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!!!!) plus copies of all my other non-Ford invoices and am now waiting on a response from the Ford technical people.

Simon....I'll keep you posted and might even give you a call. Thanks mate.


Regards


Jason
 
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They are as dumb as dog shit at Brad garlic.Not that customer friendly.But the info you have here should keep them on there toes.
They charged a close friend of mine for a modulator on his auto,while under warranty.Excuse car was not bought from them.But ya have to go somewhere for warranty.Tickford will see ya right!
Keep us in touch.
 
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I have also just purchased an EL XR6 with the exact same problem. I replaced the plugs and leads, but still the same. I would be very interested to hear how you get on.
 

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Hi guys,

I am thinking of buying an EF/EL XR6 and am now a little worried after reading all these cases of rough idling. It seems to be a very common problem with the XR6. Is this the case too with the standard Gli? Also, how serious is the problem?

Thanks,

Oz
 
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