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feed me hey
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As some may know I recently put Explorer manifolds on my car along with the bigger MAF and thottle body. I recently got the car dynoed to see what improvment there was.

Here are the Printouts.



Power and torque curves.



This has the air fuel ratio of the latest run. The first run didnt get this hence the dead flat line.

Previously the car did 136 on a 10 degree day then a 131 on a 20 degree day. The lower run is the 131. I asked for the lower run to be included as the higher run was done on Saturday and was arounf the 26 - 27 degree mark.

The car is as follows.

EBII, stock snorkle, AU maf body with the stock EB electronics, AU throttle body and EGR plate (egr blanked off with the stock system unplugged), explorer upper and lower manifolds, stock 19# injectors, fuel pressure of 285kpa, stock exhaust with gutted cats. ECU is the stock auto unit. Transmission is a T5 with a 3.45 diff ratio.

I am a little unsure of the a/f readings. On the graph what is lean and what is rich. The guy mentioned that it was running slightly lean in the top end but wasn't anything dangerous.

The car also has a bit of a running problem. In first it feels like it really struggles when I pin it in 1st gear. Its hard to describe but it doesn't feel like its making the power the way the graph depicts it. In 2nd its fine however and 2nd feels like it accelerates and pulls way harder than 1st. Wtf?! Off the line it feels really gutless to the point i really have to ride the clutch to get a good take off. To give you an idea an Stock NC auto with a 3.08 diff keeps up with me in 1st gear but when I get to 2nd I can walk away (slowely).

This problem started straight after I converted to manual (which is when the cats fell out) and is a bit more pronounced with the new intake.

ANY idea's/tips/theories are welcome for discussion!
 

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No longer around
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4,882 Posts
NZ said:
As some may know I recently put Explorer manifolds on my car along with the bigger MAF and thottle body. I recently got the car dynoed to see what improvment there was.

Here are the Printouts.



Power and torque curves.



This has the air fuel ratio of the latest run. The first run didnt get this hence the dead flat line.

Previously the car did 136 on a 10 degree day then a 131 on a 20 degree day. The lower run is the 131. I asked for the lower run to be included as the higher run was done on Saturday and was arounf the 26 - 27 degree mark.

The car is as follows.

EBII, stock snorkle, AU maf body with the stock EB electronics, AU throttle body and EGR plate (egr blanked off with the stock system unplugged), explorer upper and lower manifolds, stock 19# injectors, fuel pressure of 285kpa, stock exhaust with gutted cats. ECU is the stock auto unit. Transmission is a T5 with a 3.45 diff ratio.

I am a little unsure of the a/f readings. On the graph what is lean and what is rich. The guy mentioned that it was running slightly lean in the top end but wasn't anything dangerous.

The car also has a bit of a running problem. In first it feels like it really struggles when I pin it in 1st gear. Its hard to describe but it doesn't feel like its making the power the way the graph depicts it. In 2nd its fine however and 2nd feels like it accelerates and pulls way harder than 1st. Wtf?! Off the line it feels really gutless to the point i really have to ride the clutch to get a good take off. To give you an idea an Stock NC auto with a 3.08 diff keeps up with me in 1st gear but when I get to 2nd I can walk away (slowely).

This problem started straight after I converted to manual (which is when the cats fell out) and is a bit more pronounced with the new intake.

ANY idea's/tips/theories are welcome for discussion!

perhaps get some zorst pipe put through the cats, so there like straight through. ive been told that having gutted cats without doing this makes the car run strange??

want me to get a price next week?
 

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345kw of V8 Windsor Power
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2,784 Posts
Shouldn't have anything to do with the cats, welding in a piece will only really help the sound IMO. Other than that though, my guess would be something to do with timing/electrical. Your AF ratio is okay, climbing up a bit at high revs but still safe so I don't think that's your problem. How are your spark plugs, leads, distributor cap and rotor and your tuning? Also having the EGR unplugged will throw some EEC fault codes but I don't think that would be causing this problem.
 

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Two SC 61's = trouble
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6,360 Posts
Plug back egr atleast the electric connections..Has tps been adjusted or checked to be .9 at idle, maf clean? So you have auto eec in manual? Isn't there some resister that should be fitted??? Fit some extractors if you havn't already...
 

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i pity tha fool
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1,040 Posts
seems the same in my car.. not so much with the launch, but the tacho goes round at the same speed in 1st and 2nd.. its annoying, but it makes 2nd seem really quick.

but i'd assume thats because of the tune of the motor and it just cant accelerate any quicker under load.

i have manual computer.
 

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feed me hey
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4,692 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The maf is clean as a whistle. It had never been on a car before mine. There is one thing I had thought about. The auto engine computers get a signal from the trans computer as a frequency signal - 25hz or 50hz at what ever voltage depending if they are in reverse or not. This puts it into a torque truancatating mode to protect the reverse gear. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but my trans computer is on the shef atm so I am wondering if it is affecting anything not having any signal at all.

Apart from that the V8's shouldnt be affected by the transmission change as they had the seperate trans computer so yeah got me buggered. A friend of mine has a few different engine ecu's we are going to play round with. At the moment we are going to retrofit an EB1 Manual ecu and hook up a BAP sensor and se if there is any difference.

Jmartian: Yours sounds like the same as mine. I had thought that maybe the heads are too restrictive to allow the cylinders to fill quick enough and allow better acceleration???

Im keen to get this problem sorted out as my car was actually SLOWER after a 5 speed conversion and a shorter diff ratio. 15.95 with auto and 3.27 diff VS 15.96 with an extra cog and 3.45's.
 

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known as tibbo
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2,033 Posts
NZ said:
stock exhaust with gutted cats.

This problem started straight after I converted to manual (which is when the cats fell out) and is a bit more pronounced with the new intake.

ANY idea's/tips/theories are welcome for discussion!
FFS but some cat convertors on it please!!... Think of your kids and the environment instead of 1/1000th of a second or $500...
 

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345kw of V8 Windsor Power
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2,784 Posts
tibbo said:
FFS but some cat convertors on it please!!... Think of your kids and the environment instead of 1/1000th of a second or $500...
Cat's only last around 100,000km, so anyone with more km't than that on their engine does not generally have a functioning cat anyway. Having said that, I wouldn't recommend removing a functioning cat because the performance gain is minimal.
 

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gone
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I dont think that cats have a life span longer than 100k anyhows.

I hate to be in your shoes if pinged by the EPA.

I too recomend putting the cats back on
 

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No longer around
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4,882 Posts
laminge said:
I dont think that cats have a life span longer than 100k anyhows.

I hate to be in your shoes if pinged by the EPA.

I too recomend putting the cats back on
guys.
he will be putting cats back on it soon, as he has mentioned to me he will get mine when i get my GEN3 ones in a months time.

i really hope its just the gutted cats which are his problem
 

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feed me hey
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4,692 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
tibbo said:
FFS but some cat convertors on it please!!... Think of your kids and the environment instead of 1/1000th of a second or $500...
Its all in the pipe line mate ;) I guess you have to try these things once to see for yourself. I guess I can tell others it's not worth the hour or so to knock the insides of them out.
 

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boosted sleeper
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4,560 Posts
What kind of exhaust system do you have again NZ? Cause I'd be interested how mine would go after an intake & exhaust change in my car. Apart from the manual and intake manifolds, maf etc, my car is very similar!
 

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Are we there yet?
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1,621 Posts
How can it have 131rwkw as standard? That's a shitload more than my car, or any other near-stock EFI 5.0 i've seen on a dyno. The cats 'falling out' wouldn't produce an extra 15-20rwkw would it?
 

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boosted sleeper
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4,560 Posts
having the explorer intake and t5 manual would make that difference Aaron.
 

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a vile merchant
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Definently check the voltage on your TPS. The blade on the AU t/b is on a different angle and can cause the TPS voltage to go over 1.0 which basically makes the computer think the throttle is slightly open and dumps in fuel. Makes the car sluggish/crap to drive just off idle which is exactly what you're describing... worth a look I think.
 

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Are we there yet?
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1,621 Posts
He ran a 131 before he put the manifold and TB/MAF.

Fordfan351 ran a 121 or 125 with a manual, and Pacemakers/2.5" exhaust.

Hmmm, 141rwkw would be fun. I need more power!!
 

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a vile merchant
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714 Posts
Aaron_EF8 said:
He ran a 131 before he put the manifold and TB/MAF.

Fordfan351 ran a 121 or 125 with a manual, and Pacemakers/2.5" exhaust.

Hmmm, 141rwkw would be fun. I need more power!!

But he also ran nearly a 16 both times. Just another example of what a crap way to measure anything a dyno is.
 

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Registered
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509 Posts
When you fitted the AU maf, did you change over the guts of the maf from your old one to the new one?
I threw a 70mm AU3 maf on my EL2XR8 and it run rich as and had poor low down performance.
I rang Mr Herrod and he advised me to change over the maf guts as the new maf looks for the EEC5 puta where you old maf works with the EEC4.
It fixed my running rich and poor acceleration problems.
Hope this might help.
Steve
 
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