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V8 man
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73 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone got any opinions on who makes good quality cams out there?Seems to me that the vast majority of flat tappet camshafts are universally shit in quality....No matter how well the things are getting run in they seem to quite often lose a lobe immedietly or soldier on for a few thousand before two or three lobes lose some of there lift.What experience you guys had with flat tappet cams lately?
Cheers.
 

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330 Posts
I have a svo solid ground on a solid billet from Dean Tighe in QLD 248/[email protected] and 596/606 lift. I have not started this engine yet and we have crane double vavle spring's installed and i will not be removing the inner valve spring, my engine builder has run in engine's with 280 odd duration without removing inner's and no prob's. You can wipe a lobe off any brand of cam, if the bedding in procedure or even what lube is on the cam is flawed and i will tell you now there is a lot of school of thought on this.
AZZA
 

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The Deputy Dogg.
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1,862 Posts
The best way around cam run in probs is to do 500klm on it with revs below 4k and inner springs out, it works for me, i have chewed up 3 crow cams on run in.

I ended up getting Clive cams in VIC to grind me a custom and do it slow so as to make it tougher.
 

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181 Posts
With my new engine we used a comp cam and wiped the lobes supposedly. It was a solid. Then spoke to John at CHI and now have a crow cam, no problems so far. We followed normal runin proceedures both times. The biggest issue is lifters there is just so much crap quality out there.
 

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under thumb
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286 Posts
With solids I always have and would always use crane cam & lifters and I hav'nt removed the inners or anything like that just paste the breakin lube and dont go under 25undred for 20mins. JMO
 

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Nitrous Junkie
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98 Posts
Crane billets are flame hardened... and are of a slightly better quality.

I've used Crane, Comp, Crow, Cam Dynamics and Lunati in Clevo's and never had a drama. Correct bed in procedure and adequate lubrication are vital.

Regardless of whether others do it or not I always run them without the inners to start with, and I use Crower 'cool face' lifters which have an oil hole on the lobe face.

I've never killed a lobe yet.
 

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'60 F100 Q-Code
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750 Posts
DJS351XD said:
Crane billets are flame hardened... and are of a slightly better quality.

I've used Crane, Comp, Crow, Cam Dynamics and Lunati in Clevo's and never had a drama. Correct bed in procedure and adequate lubrication are vital.

Regardless of whether others do it or not I always run them without the inners to start with, and I use Crower 'cool face' lifters which have an oil hole on the lobe face.

I've never killed a lobe yet.

The cool face lifters are the key to an easy, "no worries" camshaft break-in. On my last camshaft, a Lunati solid, I ran it in with the inners and fairly high (150#) seat pressure. I almost always use roller camshafts, but this time I selected a flat tappet to conserve costs. I usually break-in engines on the dyno, too, but not this one.

These kinds of camshafts "work harden" and break-in is critical. The little tube of lube provided with most camshafts is inadequate in my opinion. I buy moly assembly lube by the case and use about 3 to 4 times as much lube on my cams as what the little tubes contain.

When breaking in the camshaft, it is important to not crank the engine over a long time or multiple times when first firing it up. Ideally, you want to turn the key, get a half crank and fire right up to 2500+ RPM. Obviously, prelubing the engine is an absolute requirement. I run the prelube for at least 5 minutes on a roller engine and 10 minutes on a flat engine. After the first couple of minutes, I rotate the engine very slowly by hand so that oil works into all of the components. If you start at TDC on #1 and count your revolutions, it is easy to get back around to #1 without having to do anything.

Then, stuff the distributor, put the cap back on and blast off.


:davis:
 

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V8 man
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73 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks fella's,some interesting info there.I personally haven't lost a lobe yet thankfully,but have been involved with a couple of engines that have done so and everything has gone textbook-Pre oiled engine,heaps of penrite cam lube used,started immedietly and ran for 20mins at 2500rpm,inner springs removed etc..It's just such a heart breaking thing to lose a bottom end to the bloody things that it's enough to make you not want to play anymore!Falcon coupe's idea of doing 500km under 4k has definetly got some merit I think.My last clive cam that I got through AFD said to not use max rev's till after the first 2 hours of engine operation...so I made it four hours and called it even's!Just for interest sake,my cousin is a full time wrench bender and he said as far as running cams in, the holden 308 is the worst for this kind of problem and the clevo is probably the best...Clevo's sending so much oil to the cam bearings might help I guess?
Cheers. :hy:
 

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Nitrous Junkie
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98 Posts
Holden's kill lobes becuase of other issues, mainly incredibly sloppy tolerances in the factory block. Did you know its normal for 2 308s to have approx 0.030" difference in cam tunnel heights? Think what that does for cam timing...
And lifter bore alignment is also a big drama. Holdens also run excessive cam journal/bearing clearance, which results in a lot of oil bleeding off out the main oil feed gallery.
 

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181 Posts
i always fill the oil filter with oil, pack the oil pump and pickup with grease and make sure the timing is spot on. then with good lube on the cam and lifters, start and run for 20 min at 2000rpm. even with 150lbs it should be ok but these days you get cheap crap when you pay top dollar.. cheers.
 

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V8 man
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73 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
DJS351XD said:
Crane billets are flame hardened... and are of a slightly better quality.

I've used Crane, Comp, Crow, Cam Dynamics and Lunati in Clevo's and never had a drama. Correct bed in procedure and adequate lubrication are vital.

Regardless of whether others do it or not I always run them without the inners to start with, and I use Crower 'cool face' lifters which have an oil hole on the lobe face.

I've never killed a lobe yet.
Whats the story of these cool face lifters?I had not heard of them...are these for hydraulic or solid cams?Where do you get them?Any info appreciated...
cheers. :hy:
 

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ESP Man
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888 Posts
Was speaking to an engine builder today and he said that even the yanks are having a lot of cam failures and people like Comp Cams are researching it and blaming the oil manufacturers saying the oil these days just doesn't have the lubricating qualities needed for big spring pressures on cams

I had a C.O.M.E. hydraulic fail on run in so on advice went a Comp Cams solid with their lifters and rods without a problem after priming the oil pump and motor manually before the dizzy went in. If you use all the same brand components and have a failure at least they can't say the parts weren't compatable and you will have some recourse

So be very careful about the weight of the run in oil!
 

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GEARBOX WRECKER
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475 Posts
shaynet said:
Was speaking to an engine builder today and he said that even the yanks are having a lot of cam failures and people like Comp Cams are researching it and blaming the oil manufacturers saying the oil these days just doesn't have the lubricating qualities needed for big spring pressures on cams

I had a C.O.M.E. hydraulic fail on run in so on advice went a Comp Cams solid with their lifters and rods without a problem after priming the oil pump and motor manually before the dizzy went in. If you use all the same brand components and have a failure at least they can't say the parts weren't compatable and you will have some recourse

So be very careful about the weight of the run in oil!
Oh good,now i feel sick. I have a C.O.M.E. roller in my new 383 and it sounds a little noisy to me,maybe i should pull the manifold and have a look.

How did you know yours had failed and are these big rollers normally noisy.
 

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74 XB Fairmont
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5,113 Posts
I've used speedpro solid lifters with my prior 351 and the 393. No run in issues. I did make sure they fell under their own weight and didn't feel tight anywhere.
 

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I've heard that their are additives available that help improve the oils, something like adding lots of zinc, looked but couldn't find it anywhere. I used speedpro lifters on my camtech solid, they were the recommended choice.
 

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DJS351XD said:
Cool Face lifters are made by Crower... Comp also make a similar thing. Not cheap, I believe around the $400 per set. To my knowledge they're only available in solids.

See www.crower.com and go to page 119 on their catalogue.
Try $550 per set. Ideal for high lift cams without going to the expense & maintenance issues of a roller set-up.
 
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