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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well today was the big test. We had a group of us with one lot renting a VX from Avis, one a Forte from Hertz.

Three of the guys were Americans, and we had one lady. I suggested we rotate drivers a bit and see what we liked. The results:

5 votes Commo
1 vote Falc (me, although it was very, very close)

Reasons:
* The commo had better 'response'. We put this down to the fact the Commo has a looser feeling drivetrain where the slip of the convertor (or T/C ratio) seems to provide a response advantage. The result is seemingly less throttle angle for the same result. The Ford drivetrain feels comparatively direct and the engine feels like it takes time to get going.
* The falc had a better interior feel and finish (like that was a surprise).
* The commodore rode better and felt more 'secure'. When I asked about the secure thing there was problems quantifying the feeling in words
* The commo had a great idea - the blackout between the sunvisors to stop sun coming through
* The remote of the commo was easier to use
* The brakes felt better on commo
* The commo used less than 12l/100, the ford close to 15!

When I asked those that preferred the Holden what the one main reason was, it was the drivetrain/power/response thing. The surprise was the female tester who is a long way off being a revhead - she said no doubts commo.

The americans were very positive about the commo!

Anyone else have comments on the drivetrain response? (I am very vague on autos and TCs (I very much prefer third pedals...)
 

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Saving for a BA XR6t
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171 Posts
I'm afraid this isn't related to drivetrain response but I must admit, I would prefer a VX Exec to an AU(2) Forte. The Forte sits too high and I can't say the styling really appeals.

But when it gets to other models (Fairmont vs Berlina, EF vs VR, XR8 vs SS) then I am certianly a Ford buff.

I just seem to think that if your a Holden fan then an Exec is perfectly adequate but if you support Ford then to have a cool car you have to goto XR's and luxury spec (eg Fairmont, GHIA).

I realise none of these arguments are very concrete, but Ford's base models dont seems to appeal to car enthusiasts like Holden do with the Exec.

I dont think it has too much to do with power output either. (but it would certainly help if they got the XR spec V8's, like Holden)

Please, I am not, by any means, knocking people here who own base models, I even want one myself soonish. I eagerly await your responses...
 

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BSR Field Agent
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578 Posts
Aussie Pete, We have 2 Forte's at work a series one and series two. I'm not in a position to compare against the current Commondore however I can state that the response and pickup of the Forte is what I would call Doughy!!!. Compared to past models EB,ED,EF,EL it feels flat. As a cruising highway car it is great, put on the cruise and it just keeps on going smooth and comfortable.. However around town it seems lacking in take off and excelleration under load..

However it has far more options standard than a Commondore...
And it has a Ford badge....

Oh well there's another 2c's worth...

Nipper....
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
That 'doughy' feel is what I was talking about. It feels like the throttle isn't connected to the engine (like on a ship: Capt gives command, relayed to engine room, engineer ops throttle). The effect of the Commo is to give the illusion there is far more lugging power (torque) than Falc.

I'm sure someone in Ford would know how to explain all this, but it is the lay person's impression that seems to be important isn't it? Having rented Satesman V6, the car feels quite lively given weight to power. I was surprised to say the least.
 

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1,112 Posts
Have to say the cruddydore feels more alive then the Falcon off the line. Even the slugged 3.0 TE/TF Magna felt quicker off the mark then the Falcon and those were programed to take off in second if gentle (?) use of the throttle was used. Can't comment on the Holden for long distance work as I never drove one for more then 100m. Any way driven a Mercedes 300GD auto? Takes 2 seconds to take off at full throttle!
 

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Mmmm, forbidden donut
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365 Posts
Having driven an AU1 Forte and VX Acclaim I concur with what the others are saying about the feel off the line. However in terms of handling the Falcon is streets above the Crummydore IMHO, VX felt really vauge and 'doughy' in steering response...

My folks should get their AU2 SR soon (decided on venom red and tickford 16' alloys...) will post my opinions on it when it arrives..
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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6,540 Posts
Mate just as i was goin to bed, this thread came across, ok i am a ford nut, but firtly the handling i find the falcon is definitly taughter than the commodore.As well as that i don't like the taily attitude of the commodore (maybe toooo much falcon driving).

Power, ok i agree with you guys about that instant throttle feel in the coomodore, but read my lips thats "around town" and not high speed cruising. What pete says is right, it is an illusion with a looser torque converter and the v6 sound, apparently they have stainless steal headers stock on them (not 100% sure though) so that a amplifies the sound when you hit the loud pedal. I admit theres a good spread of torgue down low from the buick 6, but i feel theres not much up top.

But i have borrowed a VT for 3 months and when i drive up the mountains on the GWH, the falcon kicks it side ways. For the same speed up a steep hill doin 120-130km/h i find i have to rev the commodore harder. Ford feels smoother. I have to note this isn't even comparing it to my manual baby. Oh yeah teh falcon has a muuuch better cross wind stability as well than commo.
I'm not baggin the commo, but where i live i drive on the above mentioned condition thats why i feel falcons are superior.

I personally reckon the AU's are as quick as EF-EL's but the AU's are a whole lot quieter thats what explains the feeling of less power.
If you ask me what keys to take a Forte or Exec, ford country i say...
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I don't agree about the rear end stability of the Falc. All those that drove the cars yesterday mentioned the Falc felt nervous compared to Commo.

BTW; explain the fuel consumption - I couldn't believe it. And we filled the cars after pickup so we knew they were full (a habit I've acquired when getting cars from rental companies. They aren't always full)
 

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1,112 Posts
The AU I drove felt fine from the rear, just the front felt like it wanted to be else where. Although I was told it had a hit somwhere! The fuel usage could be the drivers in the Falcon laying into in effort to overcome the percived lack of go compared to the Commodore. Or it could be one of those friday cars!
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The Forte I got the other week in melbourne used over 14 with almost all driving on the CityLink and Geelong freeways. So, it seems to be constant. The other half couldn't believe it!

I wonder if TC tweaking would make the Falc feel more lively? After all there is a TC lockup so fuel consumption shouldn't be hurt on freeways etc and you'd have less throttle usage around town (of course, who am I to second guess the experts at Ford - and I mean that seriously since they ARE the experts).
 

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Old Car:BA XR6 New: 97 EL
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1,031 Posts
Yesterday i drove an XG Ute, Manual, I was suprised of the amount of power in that old girl... It FELT very powerful.

Back in my AUII yes, the throttle feels ****. When you put the foot to the floor, sometimes you feel like your accelerating against a brick wall. The engine sounds coarse and the throttle feels dead.

The old XG, when you put the foot down, that baby moved, and you could feel it.

Actually, a PE Courier 2.5 Turbo Diesel feels like its got MORE power than an AU falcon... but it doesnt 86kw vs 157kw..

Caint wait for the new falcon V6 to address this issue and the fuel consumption issue...
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
jaytyn said:
Actually, a PE Courier 2.5 Turbo Diesel feels like its got MORE power than an AU falcon... but it doesnt 86kw vs 157kw..
I believe those courier turbo intercooled diesels fly! Especially before they get a tray fitted. They are a very underrated commercial ute. From memory they have a limiter fitted before delivery so I hope dealers know to remove it!

I cannot believe the difference between the way a manual I6 falc drives vs the auto. The difference in response is noticeable. Having said that the auto transmission itself is better in falc than commo.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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Yeah for soakin the bumps theres no way a live axle would compete with IRS, however on cornering speed the falcon feels more positive, like i said before i guess i'm use to the falcons under steer characteristics so theres no suprises around corners when pushed hard.

Definitly the tightness of the car goes the falcons way when comparing VT to AU. But i don't know about VX.
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
EF_Falcon_GuY said:
Definitly the tightness of the car goes the falcons way when comparing VT to AU. But i don't know about VX.
You need to be specific about what build date the VT you are comparing to was. From memory cars up to mid 99 (Aussie Pete realises his memory isn't what it used to be), as in the first 8 months or so, had a different body structure to the later ones. The telling clue is the early cars have a misalignment between the rear door and rear guard/lower skirt panel. The later cars are noticeably better.

On your AU1 thread, AU2 is a majorly improved car. I wouldn't go near an AU1 in a fit of rage. The laminated firewall is a necessity with the I6! My pick for everyday car is AU2 Futura with IRS or TVE suspension option. Looks good, drives very well, good equipment level for the price.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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Yeah the VT i had for 3 months was built Jan98 so it was the s*** of the VT's, i drove a series II Berlina that was pretty good.

Yeah i have to agree about the AU2 Futura, i like the spoiler standard all i'll add is the side skirts of the SR, and the car would look very nice. Pitty they don't have the manual, then again thats what the falcon S is for.

Yeah the car we were after before we settled for the EL, was the AU1 upgrade with the bigger brake booster, front power windows on forte and 1 inch lower springs. I think it was from build June 99 onwards.
 

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Australian AU 1 Futura Member
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77 Posts
Well I guess their responses reflected the general public's - so can't argue with that. However I feel that the people who rekon the Commy fealt more 'stable' are confusing stability with the usual muffled Cruddadore steering feel (or lack of it). Unfortunately for those of us who enjoy the Falcon's ultra direct steering, some people just can't handle this and find it 'nervous' and disconcerting. Is there any way that Ford can build a variable power steering assistance valve into the back of the power steering pump, so the steering 'feel' can be changed at the dealer depending on the requirements of the driver?

Have not driven the VX yet (test drove a VT for my experience) - hear they have a improved steering feel so I guess that comparison will have to wait until later.

My guess is that the whole fuel economy and throttle response thing may be linked. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Dominator had a few taxis up Sydney way running 2500rpm stall converters and getting not only better accelaration figures but better fuel economy as well!!! Can anybody confirm this? Makes sense to me anyway.

Me - I prefer manual's anyway - which makes me ask - who the heck is the IDIOT who decided we can't get Futuras, Fairmonts or wagons in manuals? Damn you I say, damn you! As soon as the Futura runs out of warranty you can guess which direction the auto will be travelling...
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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7,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I think you can get manuals in more models now. Not sure of exact details though.

My ideal config is manual XR8 wagon with IRS. To carry the hounds!
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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On the subject of wagons, i saw a black AU wagon at perith plaza yesterday with the xr front and the tickford 17's, looked very sharpe. It's refreshing to see an XR wagon again from the EF days.

Pete i'm ready to swap my wagon for your XR if your willing, the engine is sortof a str8tened v8 and 2 cyclinders taken off for compactness as for the IRS, ahh well it mine is an IRS sortof does a rear sway bar count.
:D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :CraZ: :CraZ: :CraZ:

LOL bad deal aye :( :( :(
 

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Aussie Falcon Enthusiast
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478 Posts
The fuel economy on the auto AU 6s is a real puzzler. I drove an AU1 ESP with auto and whenever there was any reasonable amount of suburban driving it drank about 15-16.5 l/100km. I drove it many different ways over a period of months, even trying different fuels and could never seem to better it. If the majority of ks was on freeway I got 9-10 l/100km.
 

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Aussie Pete said:

I believe those courier turbo intercooled diesels fly! Especially before they get a tray fitted. They are a very underrated commercial ute. From memory they have a limiter fitted before delivery so I hope dealers know to remove it!

I cannot believe the difference between the way a manual I6 falc drives vs the auto. The difference in response is noticeable. Having said that the auto transmission itself is better in falc than commo.
My brother owns one of those Couriers flat tray. Very nice to drive and they do go. In there market a bit thirsty and the turning circle is dreadful.

The auto box in the Commodore is a disgrace for mine.
I feel as thought Ford have done something with the shift protocals with the Au as the Forte I have driven did seem to lack the urge of my last base model Falcon, EF.
Don't know how anyone could like the Commondores feel on the road. VX I drove still had the lack of streering feed back that made the driving experience lacking and it needed constant work to maintain road placement. The Forte steering feel wasn't as good as other models in the range. Never Felt that the Forte was vague to drive but tyre pressure from rental companies can be on the high side, and speeking form experience this does make a huge difference to the way a Falcon handles.
 
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