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Vintage Mustang Member
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26 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I took my car to a mechanic to make sure everything is safe and running well. He did some work and now everything is perfect engine/drivetrain wise. He also said that my car does infact have a 289 hipo engine. I put up a post asking about K-code and non K-code cars and engines. I had asked if I could have a non K-code hipo 289. I now know that it is a hipo but that it was switched out for the original 289 2v. Now that I know one of the previous owners knew enough about cars and engines to have this one put in, im worried that my car isnt a true GTA. I have no paperwork but everything is correct to make it a GTA (as far as i know) but its not that difficult to make it one. It has the dual exhaust and has the rear valance cut outs. It has the fog lights and the normal switches for them. it does not however, have front or rear disc brakes. I thought I heard somewhere that the GT package included disc brakes so hopefully im wrong. How can I tell for sure? Thanks again for all your help!
 

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F-150 Member
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141 Posts
What year is the car?? Can you give the vin #?? I'll check my resources.
 

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Saleen Member
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22 Posts
If you don't have the answer, maybe this will help. The GT Equipment Group ( $205 option), includes, fog lights, power assisted front disc-rear drum brakes, racing stipes on each side, GT or GTA badging, F70X14 WO WSW tires, heavy duty suspension. With the 390 or 298 Hi=Po, a low restrictions dual exhaust with brite-plated "quad" exhaust was included.
The package could be opted for with ANY V8. Also, check our clubs website Falls City Mustang Club for a vin decoder.
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
Sorry, your car isn't a real GT or GTA if it came with a 2V, it must be 289 4V or 289 hipo or 390 4V. Also, all GT's or GTA's have front discs. Don't sweat it though, with that motor, your car is better than a GT or GTA with a regular 4V 289 or even a 390. The hipo 289 is a great motor, but the 390 is the poorest size to power ratio Ford motor of the musclecar era. 396(402) Camaros could leave 390 Mustangs standing still, that's why the great 68 428 Cobra Jet Mustang debuted.
 

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cougar/bulletbird member
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74 Posts
sorry but i have to correct this bit of misinformation. a gt or gta could be a 2 barrel c code car. the gta was a 67 only option so i am assuming that we are talking 67 car and starting 67 2 barrels were fair game on gt package cars. also disc brakes were an included option that could be deleted even on 65 and 66 cars (drag racers don't like them and since it was a newer technology at the time not everybody was enamored of them). i am also still curious how the mechanic could tell it was a hi-po? did he pull the oil pan off? did he pull the valve covers? if he did not take of the oil pan he could not possibly know if it was a hi-po as the blocks did not have a special number or anything you could use to identify them. the heads can be identified if the exhaust manifold is off or if you use a mirror as they usually have a 4v cast on the lower part of the head where the short head bolts go. otherwise if you take off the valve cover you can see the spring pockets for the valves. hawkrod
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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26 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
This is about hawkrod's reply to the hipo part. The mechanic I went to isnt a mustang specialist. If I really wanted to know if its a hipo then i would take it to one, but it isnt that big of a deal to me but i would like to know. Just not to have to take it to a specialist to find out. The mechanic said the bottom end or something on the bottom end was way too big to not be a hipo or it would shake the car to pieces. He was pointing to what it looked to be the crank pully or somewhere around there. I dont know how he would be able to tell by loking at it but when he looked at it he said it wasnt just an engine dress up kit. When we went to pick up the car he said a few people had looked at it and said it had a rare spyder intake. I had never heard of a spyder intake on any car, is there such a thing and if so, what is it and why is it rare? The mechanic also said it has the original dual point distributor. I could have sworn that the guy i bought the car from said he put a new distrib on, but maybe i heard wrong. He (the guy i bought it from) might have said new cap and wires. The mechanic didnt pull the valve covers or the oil pan so i dont know how he would know but he said it is definately a hipo engine. He also said that its not the orig engine which would support the fact that it is a hipo. He said some connecting thing is different from the original so its not the original engine. I dont know a whole lot about cars and engines but i know more than the average joe. I know that the main bearing caps were larger on the hipo and thats the main way to find out if its a hipo but i dont have the resources to drop the pan. it has a windage tray on it and i read in one of my books that a hipo has the threads on the cap bolts to support this but maybe you could put one on any engine. I dont know. The mechanic isnt a mustang specialist but he builds hot rods for a living so hes not just some napa auto parts mechanic. The vin # is 7t01c27159 65a 2a 200 227627. The car is a 67. If anyone could find out as much as possible about my car it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

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cougar/bulletbird member
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74 Posts
hi, your mechanic was probably pointing at the harmonic balancer behind the pulley as the hipo ones are much larger. unfortunately this is an easy swap and a good performance modification on any stock motor as the balance (despite what your mechanic says) is the same and the bigger balancer helps smooth out vibration and extend the life of the crankshaft and bearings. i have bought several of these off of otherwise stock engines as they are totaly interchangeable with the stock balancer as long as the correct style pulley is used (67 and older pulleys are usually correct but 68 and newer pulleys are larger and won't fit which is why the over the counter hipo balancer is a little different than the early ones!). as a side note the 68 and 69 balancer for the 289 302 are also larger and many people who are not familiar with the hipo unit think they have one but of course that is usually not the case. i am not sure what he is refering to as a spider intake as of course the hipo used the stock standard cast iron unit. also the stock hipo did not have a windage tray or anything to attach one. it was not until 69 when the boss 302 came out that ford had a windage tray in the stock small block. the dual point distributor was of course a hipo part but is still available from ford today as it is a popular swap item. to tell if it is an original one you need to look at the casting as it will say autolite not motorcraft and will have a 64-67 date code (if it was made from 68-71 it will still say autolite but will have the wrong date). also look to see if the casting has a spot for a vacuum advance. the originals didn't but many replacements do. the hole will either not be drilled through the housing or it can have a plate screwed over the hole. if it has a vacuum advance it is not a hipo. unfortunately it is very easy to put all of the correct exterior items on an original engine and it is impossible to tell without ripping into it. and even more unfortunately this swapping of parts is extremely common and not at all unusual. i am curious how the mechanic was able to tell that this was not the original engine as the only way to tell would be to check casting numbers and date codes. so if he is not a mustang guy i think that him saying it is not original is akin to blowing smoke up your ass. all 65-78 blocks are identical from the outside except for boss 302 and mexican blocks so unless you check the numbers you can not tell by looking at it. another thing i was going to ask is about the serial number. i see you gave the info off of the door tag but have you checked the inner front fender apron to see if it matches? i have seen many stolen cars renumbered and you may infact have a hipo and not know it. i found a cougar XR7-G (think Shelby cougar! the G stood for Gurney as in Dan Gurney) a couple years ago that a guy was restoring but gave up when he joined the cougar club and they told him that there was no way it was a G car because the vin said it was a san jose car. it had all of the correct parts so i bought it as a parts car and when i took of the dash pad the plate came with it (it was a 68) and then when i took off the front fenders i found the real number bondo-ed over. later, hawkrod
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
have k289 spotter guide literature

First off, hawkrod is right about 2V GT's and GTA's for 67. You just don't get dual exhaust with chrome quad tips poking out under cutouts in the rear valence without a 4V. It pays to check my books rather than just go off the top of my head. I have a pic of the hipo 289 spotters guide that I found on the net attached to this message. It looks like the one that was published in Mustang Monthly years ago. I have that issue somewhere, but finding it online is way quicker. I ran your vin on codecracker. The result is 67 hardtop with 289 2V and the 27,159th car built at the Metuchen plant in New Jersey that year.
I couldn't make complete sense out of the other numbers you posted. 65A is hardtop with standard interior and bucket seats, 2A is black interior, but 200227627 is ? You must have the color, trim, date, dso, axle and trans codes all jumbled up in there. Can you post the data off the door tag in order?
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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26 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Wow, thanks for all of the info. I feel kind of stupid asking all of these questions but how else am i supposed to learn? So thank you very much for having patience and the time to help out the "new kid". Well to start off, the distrib. does say autolitebut i cand find any dates so would you specify where exactly that is. Second, the distrib doesnt seem to have any vacum andvance holes or plates but i dont know what that is or what it looks like. It definately doesnt have that piece hanging off of it as it does in the picture (im guessing that is the vacum). I dont know what you mean by checking the numbers but ive heard it before and assumed it was looking at the numbers on the block but i cant even see the block much less see any numbers or letters. Do i need some kind of book to look up the numbers or is there a different way to check them? Ive already looked to try to find the data plate on the fender apron but i couldnt see anything with numbers or letters. Maybe im looking in the wrong place so where exactly is that? i checked the vin decoder also and got the same thing but im positive thats the order of the numbers although the plate doesnt look like what the plate looks like in the pictures. i guessed the door plate looked different than the apron plate. In the magazine it says the exhaust manifolds are angled downward but i have what looks to be try y headers that i have seen in some of my parts catalogs. Just asking but how hard is it to take off valve covers? basically all i have is a few tools from my dad which include basic socket wrenches and screwdrivers. I probably wont get back to you on checking things on the car because im getting it painted but ill get it back in about a week or so. Thanks for the help again!
 

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cougar/bulletbird member
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74 Posts
well here goes....... okay you found the spot on the dist that says autolite, right around it is some cast and stamped numbers. the stamped numbers should be like C5OF and then it will be cast 12127 and then another letter or two. this is the part number of the distributor and tell what it was designed for. also stamped below that will be another number like 5D13 this is the date code (5 would be 1965, D would be april, and 13 would be the day of the month). the block has the same kind of numbering above the starter and you really need to pull the starter to see it so i would wait until you need to (it doesn't really matter as the number most likely won't tell you if it is a hipo or not as they pretty much used the same numbers with a few exceptions, thats why i was saying the guy was blowing smoke!). the inner fender number is stamped directly into the front inner aprons and can usually be seen on the drivers side as there is a notch in the fender to expose it. if the apron has been replaced there will be no number but it may also be stamped on the passenger side under where the fender bolts on above the hood hinge and that part rarely gets replaced. there are no vin plates on an early mustang, there is a warantee plate on the door and then the vin is stamped on the front aprons (actually both sides but you usually can only see the drivers side) and a buck tag that can be mounted in one of several locations depending on the assembly plant. metuchen cars tend to be on the passenger side along the fender edge by the shock tower, dearborn cars tend to be on the radiator support behind the passenger headlight, and san jose cars rarely have them. if you have never done engine work don't take the valve covers off until you have a little experience, some help, or a good shop manual as it will be an oil leak forever otherwise (i am assuming a low level of experience or we would't be having this discussion in the first place). tri Y's were also never used on a stock hipo in a mustang but were part of the cobra kits and standard on the shelby's. they like the rest of the stuff you have are a popular swap and for years were available as part of a cobra kit ford sold and are still available from many sources. since you have headers you may be able to look at the bottom edge of your cylinder heads to see if you can find a number 4V cast along the lower part. i do not have a head here now to look at but the hipo head has the 4V cast between some of the short headbolts along that edge. i remember it is about 1/2-3/4 inch tall or so and and is just a 4V with no other info (i was told it denotes 4 barrel hipo but that is hearsay). i have never seen a regular head with a marking in that spot (but of course now that i've said it.....). hope this helps, hawkrod
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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26 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well i get the car back on friday so ill check everything then and ill get back to you. I had to go to the guys house that i bought the car from to get some paperwork for the liscense plate and he said it does have screw in rocker studs. I just thought i would let you know when i can check anything on the carand get back to you. Thanks
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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Discussion Starter #13
I looked at the dist. and the numbers are C5Of 12127 (underneath that) 0D10. the door tag says (and i triple checked) 7T01C217159 under that is 65A 2A 20C 227627 O W. I cant find the data plate on the aprons. im guessing the aprons are the wheel wells. but ive looked in and out of that area and cant see any numbers at all. If you could please tell me exactly where it is without using terms that may not be known to me it would be very helpfull. Also, the door tag on my car looks nothing like the picture of the data plate on the decoder site. It just looks like black rectangle with numbers and letters stamped in it in the exact order as above. Thanks again
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
That is a bizarre tag. Can you post a pic of it? Look for the vin on the driver's inner fender on the top lip. It may be covered by the fender lip though.
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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26 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I took pics of the car and put them on a cd and i tried to post them on the member rides section and the pic was too big and i dont have a web page to put them on. I didnt take a pic of that anyway. Its 1 " tall and 3 1/2" wide. Is the plate on the engine side or the wheel side? Do i look from under the hood or under the car? Is it where the chrome part is on the fender that surrounds the wheel well? How big is it? I have no idea so you have to be really specific. Thanks.
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
Here's a pic of where to find the vin stamping. If it's not there, the original metal may be rusted or been cut out for repair due to rust or a crash. The stamping might be filled in with bondo or thick paint too. If you save your pics in jpg format they shouldn't be too large. Please post a pic or an exact drawing of your door tag.
 

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Vintage Mustang Member
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Discussion Starter #17
Well there definately is not a tag on the aprons like in the pic. I finally just gave up trying to put the pic here so i made a website www.geocities.com/mustang67gta10/index.html The engine is the last pic and you may have to try a few times to get it to work. Tell me anything you can about the car because i dont know exact specifications on how things are supposed to look. Thanks again.
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
I couldn't get all the way thru the pics because a screen reports the site has exceeded it's transfer allowance or words to that effect. The red circle on the pic is where the vin stamping would be, not a tag. Can you send me a photo of the door tag or a drawing of the tag complete with all the headings for each info field. Do you have a scanner to send me either one as a jpeg to [email protected]? The Mustang Recognition Guide by the editors of Mustang Monthly Magazine is a good book for illustrating and listing how your car should be equipped and what options are available. Mustang vendors have it for sale, if you don't have a Mustang shop in town to buy from personally, they all sell online anyways. I have the first edition that was $12.95. I'm sure it's been revised a few times and isn't alot more money for an improved book.
 

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cougar/bulletbird member
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74 Posts
tyrantX is right, the number is stamped right into the apron, there is no tag. also i am sorry i didn't respond about your distributor sooner but the numbers you listed are correct. it is a replacement hipo unit that was built april 10th 1970 (OD10). you actually missed the letter after the 12127 but i have to assume it is a hipo because no one would have ordered a 289 2v dist as a replacement <G>. your door tag is right and the sequence is normal but.... there is something very few people get to see, a 6 digit DSO number! the 227627 denotes that this car was special ordered when it was new! most cars have a 2 digit number indicating where it was shipped. yours has the two and four more that are the last four digits from the actual order form! i always think these are neat and have a couple of them in my flock. hope this is helpfull, hawkrod
 

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Multi Car Member
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36 Posts
Now we're getting somewhere with all those extra digits accounted for. I think axle O is 3.00:1 traction lok but the only way to be sure is to look at the tag secured under one of the carrier housing bolts. I notice that a color code from the door tag was not included. Is this because the field is blank? That's why I keep asking for the headings for each code group. Codecracker determines the following:

Results for 7T01C217159

model year: 1967
built at: Metuchen (Edison, NJ)
bodystyle: Hardtop
engine: 289 CID - 2V
consecutive unit #: 217159
body series: Hardtop - standard-trim bucket seats
estimated build date: March 20, 1967
exterior color: Special Paint
interior trim: Charcoal Black crinkle vinyl
ordered through (DSO): Charlotte, NC ("CE")
axle ratio: Unknown Code - recheck entry?
transmission: "C-4" automatic
 
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