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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, long time no talk, I hate being on forums that I only participate in when I have a problem at hand, but what else to do?
PLEASE BEAR WITH ME, giving the background info I feel is needed for a solution. Might get long. I NEED AN ANSWER QUICK!
I have spent tons of time via Google already searching for my answer, and come up empty. Lots of wasted time there.
In this case I should have just gone ahead and bought the other choice for gas tank, I'd have had this car outta here.
but I may have to "eat" the tank I have here, doing all I can to prevent that.
Here is the situation;
Working on a friend's 08 Grand marquis LS, mileage around 80K
He lives in the country, 30 miles from anywhere. He called me up a while ago and could not move the car. He had just filled the tank the day before and went to go to town this day, and the gas tank straps broke in the driveway, tank dropped into the gravel.
I went and bought new straps, no big deal, right? WRONG!!!
so, I go out to his place with some wood blocks, a floor jack, new straps, and a few tools thinking this won't be a tough fix. WRONG AGAIN!
I took my adult son with me for reinforcement (lifting help) and we got the tank up and held in place, with the remains of the driver side stud, could not get the passenger side to start to save our life, needed at least a couple of more threads long to get the nut on. so we did the next best thing... put a ratchet strap on the passenger side "for now"/ I have since discovered the "breaking off fuel tank studs" trick, that ford pulled on us.

Next problem... (have seen this several times on all makes and models over the years, I'm a fleet mech by trade) the tank was rusty and had a pinhole that had been hidden and sealed, while that driver side strap had remained intact.

The day we ratchet strapped the tank up, I came home and got on computer, local parts stores had "no listing" for the 2008 model year, for a gas tank.
so I get on Rockauto and ordered the "non police interceptor" version that they offer, Sprectra F42D and they showed an F42E as being the "with" police package tank. In no way is this car or was it ever a police car!!!! I see lots of Crown Vics at work. (never had to deal with anything on one that required me to pull a tank on one though, yet)
So I get the car home, and up on my lift (I have my own 2 post) and pull the original tank. And pull the rollover valve and "anti overfill valve" in prep to swap into the new tank. Here lies the problem; I had to pull the tank to ID which version was in there!!! and it turns out that this car has the "with police package" version in it according to Spectra's and everyone else's catalog that I find. so now I am screwed. Its been too long to return the tank. "return by date in huge print on Rock auto receipt.
so I both Email and call Spectra tech, and they are no help "We do not sell rollover valves; going to have to contact your local Ford dealer".
I was hoping they'd come back with something like "This tank will work in the opposite application if you use rollover valve PN XXXXX". No interest whatsoever in helping me; they further said "if wrong you have to deal with place of purchase"...
so I went to Ford; they look up the VIN and like I thought, no police package, and they come up with the exact same overfill protection valve as what was in the original tank in the car, and same tank like the car has, and have no idea what else may swap in.... but it seems they had a car in their shop 2 days prior with the same issue as me.
The tank shown for this VIN, the ford PN transfers to what Spectra says is the "police interceptor" tank. Screw Spectra.
The difference is, one version has a plain round hole and this overfill valve just pops straight into the tank with its grommet. their "non- police" version has an indented hole, not unlike an oil fill cap hole in a valve cover of an older car with 2 notches. The valve for this style tank, twists in like an oil cap, The tech at Ford said he just bent the 2 wings down in the hole and was able to get the original overfill valve in the replacement tank. I test fit the grommet for the valve and there would be nothing for it to catch on, in the new tank if I were to do that.
Id be afraid the valve would pop out and it would leak like a sieve.

so I spent my Black Friday at a couple of junkyards looking for a solution. I need this car outta my garage! I found a possible solution, and proof that the tank difference can't be "with/without police package" as the aftermarket listings show. Like I said, the tank has to come down to establish which valve your particular tank has. its buried by the trunk floor and a crossmember above teh rear end and cannot be seen, with tank in place. well aside from dropping a crap ton of fuel tanks to see what cars have what, I found a few that were either dropped already due to busted straps, OR someone had bought the filler necks out of, where I could see inside. Here is what I found; a 2008 (same year as this car) Crown Vic POLICE CAR that had the same exact thing in it as this Grand Marquis that I am working with; a couple of 2007-2009s Town cars, non police Crown Vic and another Geand Marquis, all those years had the same as what I pulled out, police interceptor OR NOT. but from about Y2K to 2003 I found a few cars that all had the same style of valve as what this tank is made for. I got the most accessible one that I could, out of a 2003 Grand Marquis. Not fun laying in mud and gravel.... BUT this valve has a 2nd nipple on it, that the other valve does not. As dirty as the 2nd nipple was, I do not think that it ever had a hose on it.
Can I put this tank in this car, with the valve that I got from the junkyard? Should I cap the nipple that will remain unused? or will that screw up the venting of the tank somehow and make it hard to fill????
I NEED HELP HERE!!!! Will this combo work, or will I have to buy the guy the other gas tank, wait for it to be shipped and "eat it"?
I know that would insure that everything is "right" with this particular car.... but I have no use for this other gas tank...….
buying a junkyard tank is out, they poke every tank as they come into the yard, to drain them.
 

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Well, if I were in your shoes, I'd cap the extra nipple so that the assembly would mimic what was original and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yeah that's what I was thinking.
but when I did search for help before I put up that long azz post, (some forums complain if you don't), I did come up with some "will gas tank out of __ fit __ ", just not this combo. I was hoping someone could tell me for sure, I only want to put this back together once, don't want to take it back apart again/ especially since the car isn't mine. and the owner isnt exactly next door. was really hoping I'd run into someone here that had run into this same issue before, and could tell me for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
sorry to come off so rough in that last post but I'm quite frustrated at this situation and with the car's owner (for other reasons) and would like my lift (in my personal home garage) clear...… anybody????
 

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Well, the connector isn't like that in the civilian version, and manufacturers don't leave vent lines open to atmosphere without filtration. My guess is it was designed to go to something at one point (maybe not even on THAT car) and the hose was removed early on or that fitting shouldn't have been put on that car.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It isn't like the civilian version? The police 2008 that I saw in the yard was identical to what I have in my garage, which is not police version. I found other police and non police versions in the boneyard =/- 2 years either way of 2008, and all (police version or not) had the same setup as I do. It wasn't til I started looking at 2000-2003 versions of these cars that I found a twist in overfill prevention valve. Again, this was both police and civilian. Granted, I couldn't look at all the cars in both yards I went to, this cant be seen without either pulling the filler neck or dropping the tank. luckily about 1/3 of all of these bodied cars between the 2 yards either had busted straps on them or someone before me had bought the filler necks, this "feature" cannot be seen with tank intact and in place. but the 1st that I saw was a 2000 Town car (definitely non police, I have never seen a police version with the air ride setup) On that one the tank was in place but someone had taken the fill tube. Then on the 2003 Grand Marquis that I was able to get the valve from, (tank had fallen out of it because of busted straps) it too was definitely NOT a police version. but of the 2 nipples on the valve the 2nd (smaller) one was bare, nothing going to it.
I tried to drop the tanks on a couple more if even just enough to see what I was trying to see. Either the car was over a water hole, or mud or muddy gravel. I did lay under a couple of the "driest" ones I could find, robbed a trunk mat here or there as a "creeper" and on these cars I couldn't break the strap nuts loose to save my life or I'd have been able to get a bigger sample.

I miss the older days of dealership parts access, where they would show all possible versions of a given part, whether by "package" or usage with a certain engine or transmission, or Cali/non Cali, before/after date, etc.
If it matters, this car I am working on says it was a very early build, 06/07 but the VIN clearly says it is a 2008 model.

Thanks for whatever help you can be. my concern over using the 2003 valve and blocking the unused port, is that somehow if it should somehow be vented (thru the canister they used with that setup, maybe? just guessing) and I cap it, then somehow it won't fill right or some other malady of my creation, by using something different than how it was original. (that's not to say everything on a given car has to be "just as it came off the line" Not at all!!!!)

If I knew of someone that could use this tank that I have sitting here, I'd just go ahead and order the other version. but at this point doing that will guarantee I'll be stuck with it and/or throw a pile of money away at least for "who knows how long".... anyone who has worked on cars more than casually (auto repair has been my life for 30+ years) has run into that situation more than once over their lifetime of messing with cars.... just try to avoid it whenever possible.
 

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Im not familiar with the vehicle(s) in question,but Im familiar with rollover/ vent valves.Since the valve cant be seen or physically accessed with the tank in place,heres what I would do.I would simply install a piece of vacuum hose on the port in question,thats long enough for you to access once the tank is installed.Once you get everything back together, see how it acts upon startup & during a test drive.If it acts strangely, simply insert a plug in the end of the vacuum hose & see if that makes it better/
worse.
The venting system: Some gas caps do three jobs. They seal the filler neck (of course),but they also have a vent/pressure valve built into them too.For the vent valve,holes/slots in the underside of the cap vents air to the tank via the filler neck hose & for the pressure valve,fuel vapors are allowed to escape out of the cap if tank pressure builds up above a certain psi due to a ill functioning evap/vent system.I dont know whether the vehicle in question has this type of cap or not though?? Can you see vent holes/slots present in the underside of the gas cap,that would indicate the tank gets vented by the gas cap?? If no,the tank has to be vented by some other means,such as leaving the vacuum hose you installed open to atmosphere.If the tank is not vented properly, damage can occur to the tank such as deformation. Fresh air fills the empty space between the fuel level & the top of the tank as the fuel gets used & the level drops.Fuel vapors get purged to the canister for storage then on to the engine where they are burned to prevent their release into the open atmosphere & to slightly increase mileage (only by a tiny amount though)
 

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It isn't like the civilian version? The police 2008 that I saw in the yard was identical to what I have in my garage, which is not police version. I found other police and non police versions in the boneyard =/- 2 years either way of 2008, and all (police version or not) had the same setup as I do. It wasn't til I started looking at 2000-2003 versions of these cars that I found a twist in overfill prevention valve. Again, this was both police and civilian. Granted, I couldn't look at all the cars in both yards I went to, this cant be seen without either pulling the filler neck or dropping the tank. luckily about 1/3 of all of these bodied cars between the 2 yards either had busted straps on them or someone before me had bought the filler necks, this "feature" cannot be seen with tank intact and in place. but the 1st that I saw was a 2000 Town car (definitely non police, I have never seen a police version with the air ride setup) On that one the tank was in place but someone had taken the fill tube. Then on the 2003 Grand Marquis that I was able to get the valve from, (tank had fallen out of it because of busted straps) it too was definitely NOT a police version. but of the 2 nipples on the valve the 2nd (smaller) one was bare, nothing going to it.
I tried to drop the tanks on a couple more if even just enough to see what I was trying to see. Either the car was over a water hole, or mud or muddy gravel. I did lay under a couple of the "driest" ones I could find, robbed a trunk mat here or there as a "creeper" and on these cars I couldn't break the strap nuts loose to save my life or I'd have been able to get a bigger sample.

I miss the older days of dealership parts access, where they would show all possible versions of a given part, whether by "package" or usage with a certain engine or transmission, or Cali/non Cali, before/after date, etc.
If it matters, this car I am working on says it was a very early build, 06/07 but the VIN clearly says it is a 2008 model.
I had said that the fitting wasn't like that on the civilian version, I cannot testify what they may have done to the police version. I realize that it isn't my money, but I think you are worrying over nothing. I've had my fair share of old stuff (presently a 73 F-series with parts all the way up to 93... it's my Hill Billie Hot Rod) and I have found all sorts f things placed in that shouldn't have been.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well yeah, I guess it was all a bunch of worry over nothing. Though it pizzez me off that this company has their listing wrong and misleading. Looking at the original valve and the one out of the 03, they are mostly the same as each other besides the way they are retained in the tank, and that 2nd port. I put a vacuum cap on the 2nd port off to the side, and put it all together, and took it back to the guy. I stopped on the way and filled it up with gas (the owner lives 30 miles away, yeah, the guy paid me for the fill) and watched how it filled, and underneath for leaks as it filled near the filler neck, as well as around the fuel pump. so far so good.

I went "junking" for my "Black Friday" shopping, to find a valve that would fit this tank, and compare models. It wasn't a "police/non police" diffrerence from what I could find.... Spectra (the manufacturer of the tank that I got) has their years wrong on their listings. talking to the Ford parts guys seems to confirm this. Hopefully this helps you guys out as well, knowing this. I had to go back to 2003 to get this valve that would fit what Spectra lists as the "non police" tank.
seems like at least all the 2006-2010 of this body style that I found, got what they are calling the "police package" tank.
Whether the car actually had police package or not. IDK how many years of these cars used this other style of valve.

also 2008 in particular, seems to be a bad year for Ford and fuel tank straps. I saw several 2008 Ford products in the yard with bad ones in the boneyard. seems like "the" reason some were junked. and even at work, I've had to deal with a handful of 08 F250s come to me with this issue. and those have plastic tanks, even. While the same models, both newer and older seem to be holding up fine... Weird.
 
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