[Supa R00]

ok as the heading say i need guidance on my turbo endeavours in the future... i will fill yas in

i have a ed xr6 i want to modify... i wanna do a backyard turbo project with the upcoming money i will receive from selling my motorbike (6k+), i want my project to be nethin around 180rwkw... at probably no more than 12lb. im not planning on doin nethin to the internals of my engine... ill run it till she quits then hopefully rebuild it... (EF crank, mild cam, lower compression, headwork, acl pistons etc...) i plan to do all this next year when i am completing my apprenticeship while i stay at home

now i dnt know heaps on this subject but i learn quickly!
my first dilemma is whether to go twin or single... i know twins will give me good boost off the bottom and the like, but i dnt kno wether i should due to the hassles of 2 times evrythin and the extra costs?

second of all is the used turbo...
i dnt want nethin huge if i go single, but i want some suggestions as to what kind of turbo i should look for or if i were to go twins what type as well? what sort of things should i look out for in a used turbo?

Fuel system/computers?
what upgrades to the fuel system do yas recommend...? i kno i will need bigger injectors.. 30lbs??? what else like fuel pumps etc? and will the ford comp handle it? ive been suggested a wolf 3d to replace it.

Intercooler...
now firstly i dont want to change the looks of my car at all... i am will to modify my front end to make a cooler fit but im not cutting and hacking the external part of the bumper bar!!! i want to keep the nice clean look! now whats a good used cooler?... GTR is apparently good but is expensive and prob wont fit??? any suggestions????

Thanks in advance anyway for reading... i have many more questions but this will do for now!!! cheers, shannon

 

[Walkinshaw]

just a quick point. A single setup will cost less in the long run, even for a basic setup. Twin T3's/VG30's will cost say $950 added to this the extra plumbing/exhaust costs. Where as for $800ish (WINK )you can get a 2nd hand single turbo that will way outflow a cheap twin setup,(only thing is most large singles will require an external Wastegate) and will allow for a more simple manafold/oiling/intercooling design.

 

[Supa R00]

yeh thats what i thought... i would be interested in your turbo if i could sell my bike soon...we'll c
then hopefully get gm destroyer to make me a manifold?
we'll c

 

[EA Turbo Clone]

If your only after 180rwkw's then shouldn't need to go anywhere near 12psi, 7 or 8 should be enough if well intercooled. i would be thinking of a single turbo setup, due to costs. the extra money saved would be better off going towards a better ball bearing turbo, so that it spools up quicker. But the one thing you always have to keep in mind is, once you've tasted 180rwkw's you'll want more, so upgradeability is something that you should keep in mind.

You could use a turbo with a built in wastegate to get that power, its just a matter of getting the right one, you go to small and then you won't be able to get more power later if you want, you go to big you'll have more lag.

 

[Supa R00]

its all a balancing act isnt it!!! i betta go to bed now but dont worry!!! ive got a few more qn's for yas tommoro.... lol, cheers
shan

 

[xr_virgin]

Intercooler-wise, I would look for a Mitsubishi EVO one, or one about that size. Should be an *easy* fit.
A reasonable compromise turbo would be the larger turbo of a supra 2JZ motor, that'd be almost spot on for your application with *some* room to move.
The Wolf 3D is ok for a basic set-up, but if you are planning to go a bit ballistic, then get something better like an Autronics or even Motec ( but Motec are damn expensive! )
Your fuel system ( pump and injectors ) should be ok provided you dont go to wild. In any case, the dyno tune for the computer will tell you if it is capable or not.

Have fun with it.

 

[carazy]

Ok here's some of the research I've done on the subject:

1) Go single turbo. it's far easier to work out and the benifits of twin are eaten up in it's added complexity. (You can get a brand new t04b from america for around $500Au on ebay)

2) Your standard injectors can be run at 30lbs by fitting a xr6t fuel regulator ($91.50 from Ford) The fuel pump should be able to handle this amount of increased pressure but this will reduce it's running life and a boshe unit should be fitted later.

3) Fuel system: if your car is a manual then I'd suggest getting in contact with "performance is electronic" in Wa. You can invest in a tweecer unit that allows changes to your current ECU (must be converted to a mustang computer and a MAF sensor installed) This is much more tunable than a wolf and allows all your current electical goodies to be run perfectly plus you get sequensial efi with 2 extra injector drivers if you need them.

Another option if your a bit of a wiz and don't mind getting your hands dirty check out my "backyard tweecer mod" thread for more info on a cheaper way to tune.

180rwkw should be fine on a well running stock engine but you may want it install a decompression plate so you can run boost well.
Also if you plan on rebuilding your motor once it dies I'd suggest a custom cam from surecams in QLD.

 

[carazy]

oh and for an intercooler: the series 4 single turbo rotory rx7 would be an exellent choice if you want a second hand one.
If you can weld or know someone who has access to weld get a wreaked truck cooler and cut it down to size and fit it.
Because your running lowish boost don't go crazy with the size. Keep it about 300mm high and as long as you can at the front.
Should still be able to fit this in under the standard front bar with a little bit of work.

 

[ebxr8240]

Std injectors... [std are 19's] will only go as far as 6 Lp and rev limited to about 4000rpm or it will run heaps lean...The engine we have turbo'd is running 24's and still is basically the same too lean above 4500 @ 6 Lp...So obviously 36 to 42 Lp's is required..We only used 24's for we had them lying around...

 

[not ford]

There is no way IMO opinion you will get 180rwkw on a totally unopened motor let alone at low boost with a jap turbo. All the jap turbos need about 12psi minimum on the 3L or less motors. The 2JZ turbo is part of a sequential setup and thats too smalll also.

If you want to do it right with more potential later you WILL need to go a truck T4 or the like with external wastegate. You need a large compressor wheel to flow lots of air at LOW boost with your current setup. This requires either a H3 or 60-1 (better and will support upto 300rwkws easy) compressor, there are VLs on the street with 60-1's so there not too big. Also the larger truck turbine housing will flow your air requirements, the jap stuff is too small std for a 4.0 motor. I have heard and seen these turbos for around the $1200-1500 mark. Once you hi-flow a jap turbo it will cost the same already plus you'll probably get wastegate creep. I have seen 32mm wastegates for $200 2nd hand so this option is not much more expensive and has LOTS more potential.

I would just crush your reg in a vice, save the $91 for a bosch motorsport fuel pump. If you can't make the power with a 55-60psi base pressure then your injectors are too small. I would go 36lbs injectors minimum. Also 24lbs injectors max out at 165rwkws.

Also if the tweecer will work with the AFM in the boost pipe (ala modded VLs) then I would look at it. If not then it will become a restriction and aftermarket AFms aren't cheap. There is nothing wrong with a Wolf 3d ver4, ver 3 YES it has **** all resolution for boost I know this as a fact. The tuning support for Autronic is supposed to be bad, also the same at Motec. At the end of the day it comes down to the tuner and on the street you would be hard pressed to notice the difference between the cheap and the expensive. If you wanted 700rwhp+ and about 20psi+ then the top shelf stuff is better mainly due to their better injector control.

Also on a stock motor I would go for a custom cam to cut down your cranking psi, make more power, and improve boost response. Surecam want $220 on a regrind, wade should do it for $160 but you will need a vernier gear.

The evo intercooler is the best one that shoudl fit with no cutting. Also PWR sell a 550x300x73mm (supports 600hp @1psi drop) core for $495, so if you know an alloy welder....

I am doing very similar but chasing 210rwkws.

 

[gm dstroya]

now i dnt know heaps on this subject but i learn quickly!
my first dilemma is whether to go twin or single... i know twins will give me good boost off the bottom and the like, but i dnt kno wether i should due to the hassles of 2 times evrythin and the extra costs?

yes as pointed out singles work well, and are far less complex to set up and maintain.. dont forget there two of everything to keep an eye one.

a proper sized single will give a big broad usuable power band

also.... i dont understand why people want to have boost at 1800rpm..the concept is beyond me, i could understand if you were constantly towing

i'd set it up so boost didnt kick in till 2800 rpm in a manual car and 2400 in an auto car.. you'll get better fuel economy compare to the fella with small twin.. as, the more boost you have earleir the more fuel you are going to need to compliment the airflow.

i know i wouldnt want to be spooling of my face just going for a casual drive down the highway since most cars sit on 1700-2200rpm on the highways.

second of all is the used turbo...
i dnt want nethin huge if i go single, but i want some suggestions as to what kind of turbo i should look for or if i were to go twins what type as well? what sort of things should i look out for in a used turbo?

a to4 with p-trim exhaust and a 60-1 compressor.. have the exhaust housing of .82 as a minimum, with 1.00 being preferable.

pick the turbo up, check for chiped compressor/turbine wheels, grab the center shaft as see if it can wiggle (has play) if it has any more play in it thats over .5 of a mm its generally rooted.

Fuel system/computers?
what upgrades to the fuel system do yas recommend...? i kno i will need bigger injectors.. 30lbs??? what else like fuel pumps etc? and will the ford comp handle it? ive been suggested a wolf 3d to replace it.

wolf ecu is a nice one, and can keep emissions in check but will not read boost over 28psi due to the 2 bar map sensor built in. another alternative i like is the microtech it got plenty of features on it and a lot of quick cars run it, only problem is it does not do a crash hot job of keeping emmisions regulated.

another option is a delco ecu from a vp commo.. its a factory ecu so does idle/emmisions well, and can be fully tuneable and its cheap.

injectors should be 440cc injectors as a minimum with a rising rate fuel reg and a bosch 040 pump is plenty and can be fitted in tank... i tend to like to go overkill on fuel systems for extra security.

Intercooler...
now firstly i dont want to change the looks of my car at all... i am will to modify my front end to make a cooler fit but im not cutting and hacking the external part of the bumper bar!!! i want to keep the nice clean look! now whats a good used cooler?... GTR is apparently good but is expensive and prob wont fit??? any suggestions????

gtr cooler is awesome for a factory one but yes is exy..

hybrid make coolers (on the net) for like 900 new thats 600x300x75/90
that size fits well in front bar inbetween and below the headlights.

a cheap one t do is a pair of series 4 rx7 intercoolers with a pair of end tanks to join it all together

Thanks in advance anyway for reading... i have many more questions but this will do for now!!! cheers, shannon

i have pm'd you my phone numbers. call me for more info.

cheers.joe.

 

[carazy]

The tweecer setup uses a standard Mustang MAF sensor fitted to any size piping (must be tuned) and you can buy them on ebay.
I got a Cobra Mustang MAF sensor with 99mm barrell for $40Au +postage.
The other requirment is a mustang ECU. A3M or A9l is the best. I got a A3M $90Aus.

If you have an autospeed account go have a look for intercooler testing they got a big bunch of coolers from differant jap cars and tested them and the RX7 cooler came up tops and was one of the cheapest ones.

 

[xr_virgin]

The 2JZ turbo is part of a sequential setup and thats too smalll also.

For 180rwkw, a T4 is overkill. And considering my mates supra ran just over 240rwkw with his 2JZ supra at 12psi, evo4 intercooler and 3" exhaust, the 2JZ turbo would be more than adequate for the 4L. Spools in at about 3000rpm.
The guy has asked for 180rwkw, and so far everyone has been advising him to spend more and more money to achieve 350rwkw or more. But by all means let him know the limitations to future power-up options...I just think its mis-informing to tell the guy he needs a T4 to do the job when this is not the case.

 

[not ford]

xr_virgin you obviously have no idea that the 2JZ uses 2 TURBOS SEQUENTIALLY. What you are saying is like "a RB26 makes 300rwhp with its twins so using one will still get you that power".

There should be a sequential turbo setup for a RX7 ser 6 in ebay have a look at it. These turbos are puny by any standards, also only one has a wastegate. If the turbos were so shit hot everyone would be fitting them in singular form, even the RB26 turbos are crap in single form because the turbines are miniscule in order to feed half the motor only.

Also on any motor you want lots of airflow NOT boost, boost is essentially a reading of restriction. The 60-1 compressor will flow 380hp of air easily at or less than 12psi!!

 

[Walkinshaw]

a T4 is a much better proposition as it isnt the HUGE compressor wheel that is the important factor in setting the car up, rather the fact that a T3 or most jap turbos exhaust housing is to small for the 4L 6. It will end up having the engine making maxmum boost by 1800rpm and smoking the wheels everywhere, and cause compressor surge higher up the rev range as the exhaust wheel of T3's or T25/8's are just not able to flow the required air of a 4L long stroke motor at 5500rpm.

A well set up T4, K27, GT30, TD45 single system can cost the same or CHEAPER as a twin T3 (or even single T3) setup and will allow for a very driveable, fuelefficent and easy to maintain rice killer. Even the XR6T runs a GT35/40 stock. This is a 600bhp turbo, and you dont hear people complainging about lack of low down torque in this 195rwkw machine.

 

[xr_virgin]

xr_virgin you obviously have no idea that the 2JZ uses 2 TURBOS SEQUENTIALLY. What you are saying is like "a RB26 makes 300rwhp with its twins so using one will still get you that power".

There should be a sequential turbo setup for a RX7 ser 6 in ebay have a look at it. These turbos are puny by any standards, also only one has a wastegate. If the turbos were so shit hot everyone would be fitting them in singular form, even the RB26 turbos are crap in single form because the turbines are miniscule in order to feed half the motor only.

Also on any motor you want lots of airflow NOT boost, boost is essentially a reading of restriction. The 60-1 compressor will flow 380hp of air easily at or less than 12psi!!

I know what a sequential set-up is, but you are right, my apologies. I never saw the original turbos ( didnt realise they were so small ) and I got my wires crossed with info supplid by my mate ( he said it was a T3, so I assumed the second turbo was bigger, he meant the two turbos combined would = a T3! ) :wnc:

As a peace offering, here is are two pics of what he has done with his 2JZ.....forget 180rwkw, try over 500 for a "street car". And he is still tuning it, adding more boost and turning on the NOS......deathtrap anyone?

engine

2 big garrett bb turbos

 

[Supa R00]

thanks for all the input guys...i just got back from warnambool speedway so im pretty tired at the moment so i will look over the posts again... just a reminder im not lookin for huge power... just above average... maybe later dwn the track though...

 

[Supa R00]

ohh yeh... i work part time at a engineering place so alloy welding for an intercooler to fit will cost me nothin

 

[not ford]

xr_virgin there's a shitload fab work and money there, did he do it all himself?? I also assume the NOS is for the pair of quite large turbos??

Ignoring any initial lag that thing will be a beast.

 

[xr_virgin]

xr_virgin there's a shitload fab work and money there, did he do it all himself?? I also assume the NOS is for the pair of quite large turbos??

Ignoring any initial lag that thing will be a beast.

Probably about 50% himself and 50% outside work.

Yeah it is quite laggy, it is a pair of garrett bb GT50's ( dont quote me on that though ) that spool in at just over 4000rpm all the way out to 9000rpm.
The NOS will overcome the lag, and cut out when the turbos are on boost. Make sense?
I took it for a quick spin and it hits 180 - 190km/h in 3rd gear, but I ran out of road to pull 4th. It is scary quick....