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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to replace the water pump on my 1989 EA 3.9L EFI.

I'm trying to take the fan / clutch assembly off the water pump hub.

I've got the required 32mm spanner for the clutch hub nut, but my manuals describe a specialised tool to hold the pump while the hub nut is removed.

Not having the required tool, I'm using a large screwdriver to hold the pump while I loosen the hub nut.

Problem is it's on tight, and I think the screwdriver shaft might snap before the hub nut comes loose.

Are there any makeshift tools / suggestions anyone can make to assist me?

I've put some CRC to try and help loosen the nut, and I realise it's a left-hand thread (I'm pulling on the spanner left-to-right / clockwise, standing in front of the radiator, looking down on the assembly).

I have to try and get this done ASAP, so waiting for Monday is not my preferred option.
 

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(rollin on OED 666s computer) we had the exact same problem with OEDs car, gave up after 6 hours!!! took it to a ford dealer that has a night shift, they loosened it in about 30 seconds for 0 dollars, and left it nice and loose so we could get it off easily when the time came.

cont worry about driving home with it only finger tight - due to the direction the engine spins it actually tightens as the engine turns.

have fun!
 

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get some 3 mm plate drill 2 holes in it same distance as the bolts apart, make the length of the p[late fairly usable as this is what ya hold onto tighten plate onto the 2 bolts then use that and 32 mm spanner
 

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Discussion Starter #4
chrispie123 said:
get some 3 mm plate drill 2 holes in it same distance as the bolts apart, make the length of the p[late fairly usable as this is what ya hold onto tighten plate onto the 2 bolts then use that and 32 mm spanner
If I had the equipment to do that, I'd make the correct tool - which is similar to what you describe.

5mm mild steel, about 250mm-300mm in length, with holes the required distance apart. But the metal between the two holes is remove to allow room for the hub shaft itself.
 

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What I did was buy a $10 50cm long screwdriver from Supercheap and used that to hold hub. Now the benefit of using a cheap driver is that not only wont you care if you break it, its actually less likely to snap. Since its made of lesser quality metal and will just bend and not shatter like a higher quality one.

Also with the screwdriver wedged and the spanner in place, give the spanner a good couple of wacks with a hammer, it should loosen the locktite which is holding the nut.

Ive successfully remove the fan from two different Falcons with no trouble at all.

Most difficult part of the job is actually trying to get the fan back on....
 

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I used to use one of those brake drum adjusters that look like a bent double ended screwdriver but Marlows had the special tool for around $20 so now I use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Soxx said:
Grab the pulley with a stilson.

Rick.
Stilson? What's that?

AutoPro didn't have the required tool. I'm going to check with Repco today - and hope.

I've use a large screwdriver trying to loosen it; gave it a couple of hard whacks with the hammer. Result was a bent screwdriver & no progress so far.

(mutter mutter mutter...... if it's got tits or wheels, you are gunna have problems......)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
No luck. No-one has any at all.

What pissed me off was that the required tool is listed in 3 of the repco tool supplier catalogues that they keep behind the counter.

When I asked, they said "Oh, we don't deal with them..."

Then why do you have the bloody catalogue?!?

*sigh*

I'll have to wait until Monday and speak to the local Ford service department. Ask if I can use one of theirs.
 

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yea, a guy should come out and undo it. ring them up first and ask if they could undo it

and a service guy should do it easily!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Just thought I'd update y'all with what happened, and tell you an interesting tale about WHY i was changing the water pump. It's a bi of a 'Dirty Wheels' story, so bare with me. I'll start at the begining (a good a place as any..):

I've got an 89 EA S-Pak Falcon sedan, 3.9L MPI, automatic.

When I got it, the only problem I had was it ran cool. I replaced the thermostat, and it ran at normal temps (turns out a "cool" thermo had been fitted). The heater did not give scorching hot air, but it was OK so I didn't think much more about it.

For months I did regular runs up to Sydney from Nowra (150km odd) with no problems at all.

Then one day after driving around Nowra, I saw a red light on the dash - Water Temp! She was hissing bad back through the header tank.

I eventually got it back home (only a couple of blocks away). It seem to run fine but I still kept an eye on it.

Next trip to Sydney, it overheated again on Mt Keira. I let it cool (again the burping back through the header tank), topped it up, and made it to Sydney without further problems.

It was driven around Sydney on really hot days, and didn't seem to have a problem.

Came time to drive back to Nowra. Stinking hot day, and i dropped some people off at the airport, watching the temp. No worries. Out to Waterfall - no worries.

Then as I got on the freeway south, she started to overheat again.

Five hours later, and after stopping about 15 times, I got into Figtree where i bought a socket set (I stupidly didn't have any tools in the car - they were in the garage at home). When it was overheating the radiator fins were really cool, so I thought it might be the thermo again. I ripped it out, filled it with water, and off again.

More overheating, a couple of stops to refill, then she behaved. Ran cold, but at least i was able to get back home. I thought that may have been due to an air lock that finally worked it's way out.

Next day it ran fine but I gave it a basic flush, and then took it to a radiator guy to look at. He was a little baffled but thought it might be the radiator. Took it out and there was one damaged pipe but otherwise clean as a whistle.

We talked about it, and came up with two possibles - water pump, or head gasket. The head leak check through the water showed a little leakage but very small. he told me how you can get 'thermal circulation' when the car is running at higher speeds, but when you slow down or idle it can overheat. I also noticed that the heater wasn't giving any heat now. More air locks, I thought.

We settled on the water pump. On Saturday (the same day) I bought a new water pump from Ford ($90), and I set about to change it.

Then came the problems with getting the fan clutch nut loose, and the need for a pulley holder. I couldn't get one, and the damn thing was on tight.

Rang Ford today to borrow one and they didn't have one!

"We use a screwdriver or a big pair of multigrips"

Rang a couple of other places - no luck. SHIT!

Finally asked a local garage to send someone around. They bought a big pair of multigrips and a really huge flat head screwdriver.

It even gave him trouble ("This bastard is on TIGHT!!!") but we finally got it off the pump hub and I continued on my merry way.

THINGS I LEARNT SO FAR:
1. Use the right tool, no matter what!
2. The Max Ellery EA FALCON manual isn't worth a pinch of shit. It has omissions, ambiguities, and wrong procedures. The Gregorys manual is far more reliable.
3. It is worthwhile to remove the radiator - far better access, and a lot less swearing.

When I took the pump off, I was surprised to see the impellors pretty much intact & in good condition.

Then a lump of twisted metal fell out. It looked like a sleeve of some type - I wasn't sure. After comparing the old & new pumps, I figured out what it was. The pump has a gasket against the pump body (more on this later), then a metal gasket which blocks off the main part of the pump body from the impellers - it's not removable, added when the pump is made. This metal gasket had sheared and the lump of metal was the twisted remains. There was no water leaks from the pump, but this metal piece was blocking flow of water.

I then proceeded to put the new pump on. The new pump has a paper gasket against the pump body, the metal gasket described, and then an additional paper gasket against the block. I also used some black gasket maker / sealant for the block-to-paper gasket section.

THINGS I LEARNT SO FAR:
1. It's really important to clean that block surface, removing old rubber / paper gasket remain & general gunk.
2. Just use a small smear of sealant on the gasket - don't overdo it.
3. The paper gasket between the pump body and the metal gasket will easily move out of position, and jam in the pump body behind the metal gasket. I had no choice but to rip the bugger out and hope like hell. It might be easier to use a little gasket / sealant to seal it in position against the pump body, then go ahead with the fitting of the pump to the block.
4. The gasket must be positioned correctly. The pump is fiddly to fit, and it's easy for the gaskets to move. When out of position, two bolt holes will line up but the other two will be blocked - and you may not see this has happened!

I started to put it all back together. When it came time to put the clutch fan back on, I found it vey difficult to get the thread started (my radiator was still in place). The nut doesn't turn easily - you have to use the wrench - and what with the fan shroud, I needed another pair of hands. I didn't have any and got it on, but it would have been far easier.

THINGS I LEARNT SO FAR:
1. None of the manuals explained about the double nut system on the alternator arm. I did the usual lever it to tension, then tighten routine. I then saw how the large nut (24mm) is used to tension the belt while the smaller nut (13mm?) tightens the alternator in position.
2. It's recommended to keep the engine computer control alive by attaching a 9v battery to the cigarette lighter if you are going to disconnect the battery. It's a good idea, but my engine ran fine with a 'cold' boot (i.e. I just disconnected the battery). Drive a 100km or so and the computer will relearn how best to run your engine.
Finally I was finished, and proceeded to refill the system with water (initially, to check for leaks, etc). As I was filling the header tank, I saw water leaking badly out the bottom of the motor. I remember how someone mentioned this in another thread and thought "Shit NO! I do NOT want to have to go through this again!".

I decided WTF and filled it anyway, and started the motor. Topped up the header tank as required. I figured I could at least see if it fixed the overheat problem before having to start again.

I was pleased to get nicely hot air coming through, and waited for the thermo to open. Things were going nicely. Then i noticed something - there was no water leaking from the pump - that I could see. The first good thing in this whole adventure.

Ran it for 10 mins, topped up the header tank, then let it sit for an hour or so for the sealant to start cureing.

Checked the water, then off for a drive to check things out. The temp jumped a bit between the bottom of the NORMAL zone and slightly past halfway, but no apparent problems. Checked the pump - NO LEAKS! Praise The Lord & throw another cat on the fire!

A longer high speed drive (still only 5 mins or so until I was confident), no temp probs and no leaks.

Tomorrow, I'll drain the system, throw in coolant, and take it for a longer high-speed drive to check cooling / leaks before setting off to Sydney once more.

THINGS I LEARNT:
1. I think I'd rather pay some bugger to have all the hassle and heartache for me!

Cheers All!
 

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THINGS I LEARNT:
1. I think I'd rather pay some bugger to have all the hassle and heartache for me!
Now you wouldnt, you had FUN didnt you ............. hehehehehehhehe
 
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Evil Roy said:
3. The paper gasket between the pump body and the metal gasket will easily move out of position, and jam in the pump body behind the metal gasket. I had no choice but to rip the bugger out and hope like hell. It might be easier to use a little gasket / sealant to seal it in position against the pump body, then go ahead with the fitting of the pump to the block.
This gasket is evil. If you ever re-fit the same water pump to a car (remove the alternator mounting bracket, which breaks the seal on the water pump gasket? timing cover leak repair?) then this gasket will give you hell. I removed mine and filled the void with black silastic. seems to be holding up. I dont know how youd go with no gasket at all there, just re-using the same gasket (correctly located) made mine leak like a seive.

Stupid design, i really dont get why there are two parts.

Jase

PS: electric thermos are much easier to remove ;) make working on the front of an engine a treat!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Still running fine, no leaks.

Ran it up to Sydney, boiling hot day, stressed it with the aircon on - no leaks.

One interesting thing though - I was switching between the aircon on fresh, recirc, and off. The day was pretty humid and I think the condenser iced up.

The reason I think this is because as I was driving (Mt Keira again... cue TWILIGHT ZONE music...) and the air selector changed from face-level vents to demist.

Now, i've seen this before; it loses vacuum and demist is the default mode. I pulled over to check the vacuum lines - all OK. Hmmm.

I drove off and it was back at face level - then demist - then face level....

I don't think it was a vacuum problem - I think this is a result of the system icing up.

I gave it chance to deice, switched the aircon back on (fresh only this time), and had no further problems.

What do you people think?
 

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if your condensor ices up then i thinks u be in deep shit cos that'd mean your compressor is working in reverse cycle. the evaporator can ice up but from what u'r describing i dont think it is. if it did freeze then u would have no air flow at all regardless of where u poked the air controls.
 

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Haha, you would not believe it but I cannot get my fan off the water pump either!

I normally use the spanner and lean it against the power steering pump and crank the engine for a second, but this one is so tight the belt keeps slipping!

No matter how tight I get it the bastard keeps slipping!

So i'm thinking of making a bracket that will have 2 of the bolts go through it so I can hold it... has anyone tried this?

Any suggestions appreciated!
 
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