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XD V8 Owner
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Discussion Starter #1
You probably have heard the story that Ford Australia never built a v8 XF Falcon. The v8 ending in the XE and returning with the EB.

As Ford had decided to not have a v8 in the engine bay, they decided they would modify the heater box, add an extra speed to the fan, change the wiring a little etc.

The biggest problem is this modifying of the heater box which meant a change to the shape of the heater box leaving it to protrude into the engine bay.

This created a problem for us that want a v8 rather than a 6 in the bay. It means the right hand side of the firewall humps out leaving not enough room for you to put in the v8, mounted on standard XD or XE v8 mounts. So, if anyone tells you a v8 drops straight in with no mods there wrong.

I have experienced this problem first hand, and I have been building an XF v8 for a number of years now. I firstly entrusted who was a local engineer to do the job for me (he is now a bankrupt) who cost me money and did a bodgy job. Firstly he "modified" the standard mounts and moved the engine forward (to get around the hump prob) leaving no room (a space the size of your key) between the front pulley bolt and the thermo I fitted. I was p**sed off and got him to fix it.

He fixed it alright, he pulled the motor out and took to the heater box firewall hump with a hammer! meaning the heater hoses were crushed and not operative.

P**sed off again i took the car back (I was thinking of legal action later) and did the job properly with the help of my fiance's father who was once a mechanic, panel beater and painter by trade.

First of all we yanked the motor out (again!, which happened to be a 302 anyway). I then acquired a rusty XD 351 v8 as a donor. I then stripped out the carpet, seats, dash and heater box of the XD & XF.

We then cut out about half of the XF firewall (the right hand side with the hump) under the lip where the firewall welds with the rest of the body but left the indent in the firewall where the fan motor of the heater box goes. We then cut the same part of the firewall out of the XD (the XD firewalls dont have the XF heater box hump) and then welded it into place on the XF.

Next the XD heater box and fitted up to the XF, for memory all but one of the holes for the bolting in of the heater box lined up. The heater box in place I put in the put back all the XF dash in place which had no trouble fitting over the XD heater box.


The box in place now, I had to get it to work. The setup for the vacuum plugs and the plug for the heater box fan was different on the XD to the XF box, not majorily so I used bits and pieces of both boxs to adapt it to the XF switches in the center console controls. The main problem seemed to be the missing fan speed, while I could get all three speeds (not four like original XF) I have to fiddle with the fan speed and the air cond controls to get them all to work. This problem could probably be fixed by an auto electrician, but I was satisfied as I didnt have the air conditioner fitted and I was trying to save some money and my fan is locked on the windscreen anyway.

The finished job once repainted looks great, looks like standard like it should. Inside there is no difference to appearance as the XD box hides neatly away behind the dash.

With the heater box and firewall problem corrected, I fitted up the v8 on standard v8 mounts (no moving the motor forward this time), with the heater hoses connected everything was working.

I not sure of the requirements in other states but the XF was now classified as modified vehicle in NSW and therefore requires an engineers report and an RTA signatory to sign off to say its road worthy (which I believe includes a working heater, to demist the windscreen).

From experience this is not a job for the light hearted, if the above sounds to much to bear consider cheating by acquiring an XD or XE shell and bolting up (some mods required) the XF panels, lights & front, rear bar (& doors, dash, seats if your keen).

I'd be happy to expand on any of the above if required. Id also like to hear from those who have already modified and built a genuine XF fitted with v8.

Cheers.
 

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V8 XW Ute/APV Kitted EBII
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472 Posts
Heater Box

Mate,

Why did your so called mechanics muck round with the engine mounts??!!!

Ive had my 351 Cleveland in my XF for 8 years, all I had done was replumb the heater hoses in through the aircon holes in the firewall further to the left side of the car.

Too easy, now hassles, heater is toasty as when you want it, looks factory, plus I have all control of each vent as you normally should. Im baffled at why you had so much trouble. I converted 3 XFs all this way and didnt have one problem.

Another option is to drop in a Windsor and you dont have to change anything as they are a skinnier blocked motor and the hoses outlets make it past the passenger side head.

Sorry to hear about your experience. If you want to know more about correct fitments just ask as Im confident in helping anyone with this modification.


ViGiLaNtE
 

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Finnaly back
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1,124 Posts
reading this makes it sound so easy! I have the car fully stripped geez i wish I could afford a E series XR8 motor or somthing! I was told the shock towers had 2 be modded and evevrything
 

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I'm actually planning the same thing when I get off my P's in four years, with a 351 Cleveland. I've heard about the whole heathing box problem, but I'm still crazy enough to do it.

Just a few questions:

I plan on getting the interior redone before hand, as I really can't do much performance wise while I'm still on my P's. Is it worth it or will I need to rip it up?

That second method sounds a hell of a lot easier, but I was under the impression a Cleveland wouldn't fit on XF mounts.

If I do figure that second method out, will I still need the enginering report?


And another semi related question, can I pull a grill of an EB and put it right onto an XF with not too much hassle?
 

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psycho chicken said:


And another semi related question, can I pull a grill of an EB and put it right onto an XF with not too much hassle?
Its the XG ute grill you want, not the EB one
 

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F*#K the government
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Re: Heater Box

ViGiLaNtE said:
Mate,

Why did your so called mechanics muck round with the engine mounts??!!!

Ive had my 351 Cleveland in my XF for 8 years, all I had done was replumb the heater hoses in through the aircon holes in the firewall further to the left side of the car.

Too easy, now hassles, heater is toasty as when you want it, looks factory, plus I have all control of each vent as you normally should. Im baffled at why you had so much trouble. I converted 3 XFs all this way and didnt have one problem.

Another option is to drop in a Windsor and you dont have to change anything as they are a skinnier blocked motor and the hoses outlets make it past the passenger side head.

Sorry to hear about your experience. If you want to know more about correct fitments just ask as Im confident in helping anyone with this modification.


ViGiLaNtE

I too, dont understand the problem with fitting a cleveland to a XF, they bolt straight in, the biggest problem is you need to relocate the heater pipes, it's a pain but not that hard, if you have a series two XF and want to use a C4 auto you have to drill holes for the gearbox crossmember or make an adaptor.(they changed the gearbox mounts, why I dont know, a adaptor would be the wiser thing to do.)
There is very little room between the left side head and firewall so you have to choose wisely the tappet covers you use and you cant use the kick down rod.
302 windsors fit like treat using standard falcon mounts, no heater mods, the engine looks so small in the engine bay
 

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Let's Drive
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131 Posts
I have a 302 windsor out of an EB. Slotted straight in the engine bay, the only thing that I couldn't keep was the Aircon as it hits on the passenger tower. It is easy enough to have a bracket made up on the other side to have it installed though.
I needed to get an engineers certificate, but didn't have any problems there.

psycho chicken
You're in Melbourne right? In that case what year is your XF? Series one, you will need to run straight gas on your car to meet emission standards.
Series two, not sure if you can meet emission standards even if you run straight gas. That was the main reason why i put a later model V8 in mine. Vic roads wanted me to do $2000 worth of emission testing (at my own cost). If i was to fail the emission tests, oh well too bad they said, can't drive your car on the road and just lost $2000. NO THANKS.
You will need an engineers report no matter what size V8 you put in.
 

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V8 XW Ute/APV Kitted EBII
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472 Posts
Addition

Just to add to my message b4, you do have to use XD/E engine mounts, the XF ones domnt work and arent designed for the extra weight of a V8. PLus I was running a 3 Core radiator with thermo fan also.

Ive had autos, and manuals in this car, and everything was fine. The extractors that I got off an XB was about the only minor problem I had. Had to bend a pipe to get enuff clearance from steering arm. No probs!

ViGiLaNtE
 

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F*#K the government
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Re: Addition

ViGiLaNtE said:
Just to add to my message b4, you do have to use XD/E engine mounts, the XF ones domnt work and arent designed for the extra weight of a V8. PLus I was running a 3 Core radiator with thermo fan also.

Ive had autos, and manuals in this car, and everything was fine. The extractors that I got off an XB was about the only minor problem I had. Had to bend a pipe to get enuff clearance from steering arm. No probs!

ViGiLaNtE
You cant use the 6cylinder mounts anyway, they are heaps different, mounts and brackets right back to XA will fit, gearbox cross member has to be from a xe or xf and post 86 vehicles dont have the front mounting holes like pre 86 for the gearbox crossmember.


My old car was a 10/87 XF Fairmont Ghia Wagon, fitted with 351C, 302 heads, ported, 4V valves, chambers CC to about 72cc, original cam TQ20 (changed a few times), straight gas, shit Garison gas system,C4 and way to high 2.77LSD diff(it died :toocool: ) and now car is in car heaven.
 

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SHHMIK said:
psycho chicken
You're in Melbourne right? In that case what year is your XF? Series one, you will need to run straight gas on your car to meet emission standards.
Series two, not sure if you can meet emission standards even if you run straight gas. That was the main reason why i put a later model V8 in mine. Vic roads wanted me to do $2000 worth of emission testing (at my own cost). If i was to fail the emission tests, oh well too bad they said, can't drive your car on the road and just lost $2000. NO THANKS.
You will need an engineers report no matter what size V8 you put in.
I don't have the car yet, still gotta get a bit more money. I'm hoping to get the XF update with 4.1 EFi and 5 speed manual.

I'd prefer the extra grunt of a 351c, but I guess I can work around that. What about a 351w, how would that go in? I know very little about Windsors, is the 302 a 351 with a smaller stroke like the Clevelands or are they different engines entirely?

And what price range would I be looking at to get a decent one out of a later model Falcon?

Engineers report is no hassle anyway, I've got connections lol.

[edit] I said extra grunt of a Cleveland, could someone set me straight here? My old man reckons a 302 Windsor he had in an XE would out do any of the 351c's they bunged in the other cop cars. [/edit]
 

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socially irresponsible
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351w is different block to 302w. it has a taller deck height for the longer stroke. i think it's even taller than the cleveland. as for 2nd hand efi windsors try a magazine like parts peddler. that mag is full of wreckers all over australia. december edition had an eb 5.0 litre going for $1950 including loom and puter but without bolt ons, which would suit you anyway.
if you need more cubes just do what ford did and stroke it to 347ci.
 

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Now that seems like a much better option. I think the pros of a stroked out 302w outweigh those of a 351c hand down.

BTW shhmik, your XF is the best! That's the one that turned me off getting a 302 XC Coupe. Love to see it in the flesh one day.
 

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XD V8 Owner
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Heater Box

ViGiLaNtE said:
Mate,

Why did your so called mechanics muck round with the engine mounts??!!!

Ive had my 351 Cleveland in my XF for 8 years, all I had done was replumb the heater hoses in through the aircon holes in the firewall further to the left side of the car.

Too easy, now hassles, heater is toasty as when you want it, looks factory, plus I have all control of each vent as you normally should. Im baffled at why you had so much trouble. I converted 3 XFs all this way and didnt have one problem.

Another option is to drop in a Windsor and you dont have to change anything as they are a skinnier blocked motor and the hoses outlets make it past the passenger side head.

Sorry to hear about your experience. If you want to know more about correct fitments just ask as Im confident in helping anyone with this modification.


ViGiLaNtE
Nice pic, the engine bay looks good.

Id like to ask you whether you modified the heater hump at all, my belief is that some modification of this is necessary to fit a cleveland.

I probably should have made myself more clear i was talking about the fitment of v8 clevelands only.

I guy i know has modified his XF what sounds to be similar to you, by modifing the existing XF heater box and relocating the heater hoses, but still modified the firewall slightly by lowering the hump to give the room needed to fit up on standard v8 mounts a cleveland.

I understand there is more than one way to make the cleveland fit such as by the way u described and both methods (mine and yours will work). The difference with mine is the firewall has been modified to look more like an XD or XE firewall than that or a stardard XF, like Ford probably would have designed it had they had a v8 XF from the factory (i mean the XD & XE shared the same firewall so a factory XF v8 probably would also have had the same firewall)

The bottom line is some mods are required for either method to the firewall and i your case the heater box in mine changing the heater box to an XD one.

The engineer i first got to do the job didnt do it like i asked thats why i asked him to fix it and eventually took the car back to do it myself. From the start i had asked him to fit the engine like it would in a XD or XE on standand v8 mounts (not modified ones like it ended up). I left the original engineering up to him and i ended up with a bodgy job.

Anyways, cheers and thanks for your comments.
 

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V8 XW Ute/APV Kitted EBII
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V8

I had about the width of ur finger space between the back of the passenger side head and the firewall where the heater box was. I think we did tap the corner of the hump in a little but u wouldnt have noticed it. I had a stage 5 cam in this thing and it rocked from side to side but didnt touch any of the body.

When I get back home from work I will try and get a better pic of my engine bay where the heater hoses go into the a/c spot

ViGiLaNtE
 

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Let's Drive
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Thanks psycho chicken, just starting on my next engine project. Stroked 302w to 347 with all the go fast goodies attached. Will keep all updated when the time is right, still need to save some more cash.

I'll be at Sandown on Sat 8th Feb and easternats over easter. Come and say g'day if you can make it.

Cheers
Cliff.
 

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F*#K the government
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Re: V8

ViGiLaNtE said:
I had about the width of ur finger space between the back of the passenger side head and the firewall where the heater box was. I think we did tap the corner of the hump in a little but u wouldnt have noticed it. I had a stage 5 cam in this thing and it rocked from side to side but didnt touch any of the body.

When I get back home from work I will try and get a better pic of my engine bay where the heater hoses go into the a/c spot

ViGiLaNtE
My XF was the same, about finger width between the head and firewall, choose your tappet covers wisely or slightly mod them, because when you break and engine mount, which you will, the tappet cover ends up just touching the fire wall, if you push the lip up it doesn't. It never touched the firewall other than if you are flogging it, break a mount and keep doing it. ;p
If you are still worried just cut out a little bit of the firewall, nothing drastic, and weld in a bit of plate with the thick insulation remove from that section, that would give u about another 10mm at least.
As for Windsor's, 351w has got a higher deck height than a Cleveland, just their head are much smaller, when u fit Cleveland heads to 351W you can then see it.

There isn't much that can be swapped between 302W and 351W, crank, rods, pistons etc are all different, heads can be and some other minor parts.
Advantages of using 302W, light, very small (smaller than a 308/304 GMH), roller cam standard since 86? (don't quote me, to lazy to check) and more stuff available for it in Australia than Cleveland's, i.e. fuel injection
 

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F*#K the government
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Back to the original thread, why bother with the xd firewall, buy an XE, fit XF interior, guards, taillights etc.
Then u have what you built, nearly the same amount of work and no rego worries as long as you buy an early one.
Just a thought.
Lots have done it, including Street Machine Magazine back in 88, they fitted a Cleveland, top loader (to dear for a five speed that could handle the power) fuel injected it (with I think a Magee setup?) and called it a phase 5? I cant remember to well, just remember them doing that, racing it against a Walkenshaw and giving it away in a competition. I dont think they swapped the dash but, why I dont know, it is pretty easy, very easy if you swap the whole cars wiring harness.
 

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socially irresponsible
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yeah damage181 i remember that they did it to a guenuine xe esp 351. what a waste. but i do agree with converting the xe, i reckon the xd/e had better dash layout anyway. i think to fit the tail lights you have to do a bit of cutting steel as well.
 

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F*#K the government
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nak302 said:
yeah damage181 i remember that they did it to a guenuine xe esp 351. what a waste. but i do agree with converting the xe, i reckon the xd/e had better dash layout anyway. i think to fit the tail lights you have to do a bit of cutting steel as well.
That tells u how bad my memory is, I would have sent them death threats if they did it now.
Yes there is a bit of cutting for the taillights, have to do some mods for the headlights too, dash bolts up, wiring etc different, think there is some different screw holes etc needed in different places for interior. I'm sure I have missed something but who cares. :fingers:
 
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