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Rip Up The Track Join OFR
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That makes very interesting reading, maybe you could do a poll asking people after they have read that article would they have a go at defending a speed camera infringement notice…
 

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Bourbon powered V8
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Anyone know of a site for SUCCESSFULLY defending a speeding ticket?
 

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Faster than Zyrtec
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A speeding ticket is usually a statutory offense anyway - that is, its the onus on you to prove that you are innocent and not guilty of the offense. The reason for this is so the courts system is not clogged with people contesting speeding fines and other, lessor misdemeanors. As bad as it sounds, sometimes you just have to cop it sweet; the issue at hand lies with the state parliment, not the judiciary.

It may also be worth noting that a judge can issue a harsher fine than the one originally issued.

That might be brilliant idea for checking if your speedo is out of order, but its not going to work wonders for you. You could argue a defence of a reasonable mistake that a normal person could do, but you should be able to tell the difference between 80 km/h and 91 km/h, and I think it would be the responsibility of the owner to ensure that the speedo is (roughly) accurate at the time of registration etc.
 

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dave_au said:
The reason for this is so the courts system is not clogged with people contesting speeding fines and other, lessor misdemeanors. As bad as it sounds, sometimes you just have to cop it sweet; the issue at hand lies with the state parliment, not the judiciary.
I disagree.
Speed camera's, whether they are mounted on cars or fixed on freeway over-passes and intersections are nothing more than revenue raising.

Living in Victoria, our 'hungry' state government; like the windfall on stamp duty is not enough, has just put in place dozens of new fixed speed camera's at intersections. I see people slow-down as they go through intersections, and then just 'floor-it' straight after. You might say that "this is the point", but thats BS as the point, as stated by our state gov is to slow drivers down overall to save lives (not just through intersections).
Even the claimed reduction in road toll figures are fudged. as the reduction in deaths is purely of peadestrians only, not drivers !.

Even senior police in Victoria have admitted that these new camera's are nothing but revenue raises.

This situation is beginning to piss people off big time, and I can see many more people beginning to challenge their fines, and good on them !.
Imagine the cost to police and the judiciary if 9/10 fines were challenged. Unfortunately most people "have lives" and dont have the time to do it, and just pay it.

Considering car manufacturers only need to install speedo's within +/- 10% accuracy - as per Aust Design Rules, then either the ADRs need to be tightened up (ie..zero tolerance), or they should at least re-introduce the +/-10% flexibility. Why should consumers be hammered with the cost of having their speedo's tested, and then have to waste more of their time taking their car back to the manufacturer to have it corrected or replaced.

I assume the Federal government is responsible for the ADR's in relation to road vehicles, therefore they also need to act to either:
1. Tell the states to give a +10% tolerance before imposing fines, or they could withhold fedral funding for further road projects...
or
2. Update the ADR's to enforce zero tolerance on Speedo's (ie..must be 100% accurate, else manufacturers could be held accountable for fines if the speedo is tested and found to be inaccurate.
 

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pR()rN_*
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there is another option for defence when booked by a laser gun. If there is only one cop that books you and are provided with no evidence apart from him showing you the gun.
You can lie in a stat dec saying you were not speeding and take it to court. In the first hearing you don't plead guilty/not guilty but instead plead: no evidence.
The onus is then on the court to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were speeding.
Now normally infringments and expiations come under tax law and that means they don't have to prove you did anything they can just make you pay but because of the stat dec and your plea they have to prove it.
They can't so you get off.
Doesn't work if they have photographic evidence though and lieing in a stat dec can get you a fine of up to $2000 or 6 months in gaol.
Usefull if you were not actully speeding though and believe the cop was just out to get you......
But basically if people in AUS actully got off their lazy arses and winged about it something might be done but while people just pay the fines you can bet the Gov will keep handing them out.

I have not yet nor will I ever pay a fine with out going through the courts first.
 

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carazy said:
there is another option for defence when booked by a laser gun. If there is only one cop that books you and are provided with no evidence apart from him showing you the gun.
You can lie in a stat dec saying you were not speeding and take it to court. In the first hearing you don't plead guilty/not guilty but instead plead: no evidence.
The onus is then on the court to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were speeding.
Now normally infringments and expiations come under tax law and that means they don't have to prove you did anything they can just make you pay but because of the stat dec and your plea they have to prove it.
They can't so you get off.
Doesn't work if they have photographic evidence though and lieing in a stat dec can get you a fine of up to $2000 or 6 months in gaol.
Usefull if you were not actully speeding though and believe the cop was just out to get you......
But basically if people in AUS actully got off their lazy arses and winged about it something might be done but while people just pay the fines you can bet the Gov will keep handing them out.

I have not yet nor will I ever pay a fine with out going through the courts first.
The big problem is that perjury can get you a lot more than a $2K fine and 6 months in the caboose. That's not to say it isn't done all the time but where people go wrong is that they don't stick to their story and crack under the pressure.

If you are as guilty as hell, my opinion is get the ticket, send it back to contest it as is your right ... adjourn it a couple of times then the day before the mention date ring up and say you are pleading guilty and pay the fine. Maximum inconvenience for the system.
In the 'Old Days' when camera had a 10 Kmh leeway no matter what the speed, I didn't mind them, but now ... in short .. screw 'em

In all seriousness.. everyone should look at the picture and seek professional legal advice before doing anything.
 

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pR()rN_*
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oh but if you lie on a stat dec your asking for it.

By the way the above doesn't mean I never payed a fine I just wasted their time in the maximum way first :angel:
 

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Rip Up The Track Join OFR
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i would say that a agree with what james A posted....
 

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Faster than Zyrtec
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JamesA said:
I disagree.
Speed camera's, whether they are mounted on cars or fixed on freeway over-passes and intersections are nothing more than revenue raising.
Im not too sure what point your disagreeing with me on.

I agree that they are revenue raising, never doubting that, and that they don't work. But a statutory offense is caused by the legislative, not the judiciary.

As you suggested, the best action would be for the federal government to enforce the ADR 10% compliance, or better still, take a federally acceptable position on all speed camera proceedures. I find it interesting that John Anderson was quick to point out that he would be willing to stand up for motorists, but to be honest, I haven't noticed any more of his wrk on the issue. Maybe he's working in the shadows.
 

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Lamahs approve of manuals
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Interesting site . . .
I do think its interesting that the speedo, which we are being educated is such a "critical" safety system (i.e. if its wrong, and you go 5 over, you *are* going to die !), isn't checked at rego, like lights, tyres, brakes etc...

Hmm. Design a car for 10%, prosecute at 3kph, and never require it to be accurate ?
Hypocrites.
 

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Why the hell doesn't someone in Victoria get off their backside and just go and take the state government to the 'HIGH COURT'.

I have not heard 'bo peep' out of anyone over there even considering it but the state gov' is deliberately and blatantly ignoring an ADR compliance ruling by going below the +/- 10Km/h threshold in handing out fines, which they can't be allowed to realistically rely on indefinately.

When someone over in Vic' takes a stand and refuses to take up the rear like they do now(screwed) until then all Vic's can cop it sweet as far as I care.

Hasn't anyone ever wondered why no other state governments have even tried to do the same thing as Victoria?

Because all the other state governments know that one day in court they would be forced to pay back all the fines illegally collected under a sham tolerance level made up in some crummy state parliament under the propaganda and hype of road safety for all it's tax paying citizens.

You just never know, you could aswell end up forcing the hand of all state governments; with having all of them trying to justify the legality/necessity of even using roadside speed cameras at all. I mean, how could the result of one factor alone, speed, logically be the one and only prime cause of accidents?

When the definition of all vehicle accidents are enshrined in law within state parliaments right across the country as being caused by a chain of events and not just one factor by itself, the governments will have to admit that speeding is the easiest thing to tax and are therefore just 'bilking' revenue from all motorists then they would have to seriously tackle the safety issue transparently out in the open with active community participation.

Using the above premise, the excuse of using the current regime of speeding fines as a 'prime' deterrent, can be proved false because it is just another taxing regime in disguise... why do fine payments go into 'general revenue' and not directly to road maintenance/safety?
 

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RACE
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Discussion Starter #14
What I can't believe is that some people are saying "just pay the fine etc etc". The whole system is flawed and we know it. The general public will generally not contest any speeding fines regardless of whether they believe they have been hard done by. We need to get of our arses and do something about it because it is our right and duty to have justice.
Lives are not being saved by these cameras, which is backed up by todays update on the holiday road toll. Victoria, the state with the toughest speeding measures has the highest road toll. Doesn't that say something??

I am prepared to take drastic action if required, although I'll will not mention them here.
 

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Faster than Zyrtec
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RATT said:
What I can't believe is that some people are saying "just pay the fine etc etc".
I assume thats aimed at me, and thats not what I meant exactly; I disagree with the speeding offense process, especially in Victoria, however, little of a personal battle will be achieved in a local court, its like trying to fight a war on your own. Now if there was a class action to a higher court, then things could get a little more interesting.
 

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RACE
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Discussion Starter #16
No Dave not aimed at you, just a general observation.

If it does get taken to the high court then if not many fines have been contested it may be seen that the case is futile as the general public do not seem to have a problem. That's why I say we need to be part of the evidence against revenue raising speed cameras.
 

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Lord of the RC
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What happens if you never receive the fine that you know you got ?

Im 110% sure i got done for 60 in a 50 zone, drove right intot he camera and saw the flash, only car on the road, and that was a good 2 months ago, havent gotten the fine at all
 

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Mulberry Rain
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My details are a little sketchy, but I heard that you can avoid having points taken away from your liscense by paying too much on the ticket.

Say for example, the fine is $90, if you send a check for $90.77 they will send you back a check for 77c and wont process the fine untill you bank the check. If you rip up the check and never bank it, they cannot take your money and your points.

Apparently its easy to be lost in the system this way.

I've heard of it before, and I spoke to a person in tafe who claimed they did this and go off it...repeatedly
 

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fordel said:
What happens if you never receive the fine that you know you got ?

Im 110% sure i got done for 60 in a 50 zone, drove right intot he camera and saw the flash, only car on the road, and that was a good 2 months ago, havent gotten the fine at all
if your lucky that may have been a 'test fire' or something was blocking your number plate?(towbar?)just make sure your rego/licence details(address) are up to date
 

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A minor note.. the detected speed ( which doesn't appear on the PN anymore ) will be for 10% over , ie:66 in a 60 zone will get you a ticket, but the police are required to drop off 3 Ks, thereby earning people a notice for an alleged speed of 63. Technically people are being penalised for doing 10% over as per the ADRs
Really, in the interests of fairness the PN shouldn't be issued unless the adjusted speed is 66 or more. Actually, in the interests of fairness they should bin the things but that aint going to happen.
 
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