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Discussion Starter #1
As everyone is aware, or should be by now, we have been graced by Happy-Jack or as he is known to his friends, David Flint. This thread I will start in two parts.

Part 1 Mental Picture.
David has no idea of what sort of people we are, nor does he know our background or thoughts. I would like to start by saying, I am a State Manager, with 3 letters after my title, who knows what he wants, and I know how to get it. I am not a rev head that frequents McDonalds doing burnouts over the speed humps, nor do I frequent carparks at night comparing afterburner exhausts off F1 jet fighters hanging out the arse of my car like the rice boy's. I dont have a rear wing on either of my 2 XR8's that is so high it needs a warning light so planes dont crash into it, when approaching Mascot Airport.
My I.Q is such I can hold a conversation with anyone who is intelligent enough to listen and understand and can return the same to me.

David, without being rude to yourself, or your staff and this goes for Geoff as well, if you think this forum is full of looneys, who do what I have stated earlier, then you are sadly mistaken. If you have come here to listen and laugh to the mindless ramblings of idiots you are sadly mistaken. The people on this forum are in my opinion, some of the most intelligent people I have met, when it comes to Ford Products. Each person is different in his own way. Each can contribute in one way or another.
Enough said.

Part 2 What I want.
Like the majority of people, we are dismayed by the fact, that Ford and Tickford are behind the 8 ball instead of being in front. Without getting involved in company propaganda and all, the hype surrounding who is doing who in the closet at smoko. My question is, what can we expect from Ford in the coming months, there are rumours of strokers and 5.4's, 4.6's, and so on.
Are we going to see extra horsepower or are we going to sit behind Holden as usual. I dont expect you to break protocol and spill all, but surely something can be leaked.

having said that I would suggest to everyone on the forum that each one tell the man what we want to see in terms of power and such. Keep the power in reasonable figures as well, no ridiculous claims or 600ci blocks. the ideas must be workable and within what we would expect a budget by Ford would allow. I have chosen this method of communication because the threads are far and few between and for David to scour the lot, would take infinity.

LETS START THE BALL ROLLING. Anyone's thoughts on the stroker being a viable option. I say yes. It can be done. I'll explain in another Box.
 

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Shhh, we're hunting Lions
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I agree with everything the DOCTOR said. I also agree that the stroker has to go ahead, we need a flagship brand (FTE) and a cult car (GT) that can compete with HSV, at the moment I don't think we have that.
 

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THE DOCTOR said:
....I am not a rev head that frequents McDonalds doing burnouts over the speed humps, nor do I frequent carparks at night comparing afterburner exhausts off F1 jet fighters hanging out the arse of my car like the rice boy's. ....
Funnily enough I had a run in with one such Maccas "customer" driving a 308 torana last night, but thats a story for another thread at another time.

I agree with the Doc, I beieve the stroker would be viable, but when it comes down to it, the decision will be based on actual market research, not by what I or anyone else believes might be the case.
Lets just hope the market research agrees with our beliefs.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
O.K Why do I think it's viable. firstly I believe that Ford has to change there way's on public perception. Stop listening to your bean counters and marketing dept, it sounds like it's full of dead wood. This forum will give you an insight of what is wanted.

If and when Ford take the approach that the 5.0 has to go, then so be it. In the meantime lets look at stock levels. I'll make a wager right now there is a **** load of old stock including unsold XR8's from dealers who did'nt make the quota. How do I know, easy inside info. Ask me...
I also bet there is a surplus of 5.0's and associated equipment sitting in racks. Instead of writing the stuff off and getting John Howard to give you a cheque, why not use the old stock. I think it's called FIFO, or was when I last used it. There must also be a **** load of 5.8 cranks in the states somewhere, looking for a 5.0 to call home. Yes this will cost money, but not as much as writing the stuff off. that involves a stocktake of all out of date inventory, that will take a few years.
add that cost up, compared to the stroker.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of doing a stocktake for cityrail some years back, I can say here and now a lot of stock including N.O.S was valued at 0.01 cent and wrote off the books. makes you sick..
 

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The SparkleHunter™
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Re: Re: Lets Get Serious

DONUT KING said:
Lets just hope the market research agrees with our beliefs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we the target market?

My ideal purchase from Ford/Tickford would be a Falcon GT 351 with around the 280-300kw/500nm mark, with an exhaust note to die for. 5/6 speed manual (doesn't bother me either way), stop on a 5c piece and it must corner like it's on rails. Around the $50k mark would be nice too.

I know full well that my ideal car is a pipe dream. Ford and Tickford couldn't possibly produce such a car for that price. Never the less, there are quite a few folk who are looking for such a car right now and are willing to pay the $$$ for it. HSV is the perfect example. Build quality mightn't be all that good (IMO), but they have the go and can stop just as quick.
This is what Ford/Tickford need to produce. Image leading vehicles that make people want to own them. I'm one of the few that want to own a Tickford vehicle again. I've already owned one and experienced the pleasure. Now it's time for the rest of the country to feel the same way.
 

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Guys, don't forget values. Those that actually buy new cars (not those that TALK about it) have issues such as luxury tax limits, resales, packaging rates etc etc. Going overboard may actually harm the equation.

From my perspective I've had enough of owning cars like those that you describe (like my GTS-R). You can't park them anywhere and no-one in the used market can afford to buy because of insurance and other factors.

My spec is the XR8 as it stands, with updates per models changes, and a mild stroker engine that has the midrange grunt I expect from a V8. It should have 230kW but an easy 480Nm+ torque from around 3000rpm, no higher. The stroker could even be part of an XR8-R option pack for those buyers that want to go beyond what the cops get. Looking at RRP for std XR8 ($47k), this could be a major sales driver at $51k with room for one or two options before going over the Luxury Tax threshold.
 

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I think that a 5.0 stroker would be a stop-gap measure for the T-Series until Ford can get supply of the mod engines. The stroker would be a hand built engine because of the tight tolerances in the stroke design so there are cost decision if it were introduced into the XR. I believe there are too many 5.0 variations so does Ford make money out of them?
The AV definitely has to have the 5.4 than the 4.6 because of torque. Talk is that there will be a 3V 5.4 (maybe VCT). Don't forget that SVT has a supercharged 5.4 (380 hp) and the Cobra R 4V (385hp- more like 400+hp). There is enough energy in the 5.4 to keep us happy. Geoff, tell your guys to make the engine bay big enough just in case we need to slip in the V10!
Another thing, can someone tell Borg Warner to make the auto more reliable. My good friend is an auto transmission specialist and told me the only thing keeping him in business is the Ford 4-speed auto. I hate when manufacturers build ancilliary items that are just good enough to be reliable. I think it is bad business when some items are a disposible.
David, what is the chance the sequential shifter of being an option in the XR range? Does it improve the 5-speeds shift quality?
 

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Agreed Aussie Pete - the price range needs to be the $50k driveaway.

Face it - the most numerous sports V8's are the XR8's and the SS's. They are priced reasonably enough for someone to aim for ownership. They fall below cut-offs for packaging (ie my old company was $55k ). They aren't to pricey to insure.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Mr GTHO said:

Another thing, can someone tell Borg Warner to make the auto more reliable. My good friend is an auto transmission specialist and told me the only thing keeping him in business is the Ford 4-speed auto. I hate when manufacturers build ancilliary items that are just good enough to be reliable. I think it is bad business when some items are a disposible.
I for one totally agree with that.

I think something has to be done about reliability on major components if theyfail early or become too expensive to repair then potential customers may hang on to their current cars for many years.

If GTHO's transmission specialist friend is saying Ford 4 speed autos are keeping him in business and seems to be well known problem people such as myself who can only have automatics may have to buy a car that dosen't have those problems.
Since my car has 165kw of power what has Ford done to automatics to withstand the extra power for the new models.

All the effort of making the car look good and upgrading performance will go out the window if the car is a lemon.
 

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I'm 16 - 17 years old and i'm obviously not in the new car market, YET. For a first car i'll be looking for something like an EF Gli (mod suspension, new wheels, headers) and that's it. No rear spoiler, nothing exterior to be done. This certainly reflects my feelings if I were buying a new car. That is why I love the TS and TL50. The subtle, no rear-spoiler, nothing outrageous approach is very appealing. This is why I cant get excited about most of the HSV model range (that's not a cheap shot at the 'dark side', just my honest view). And as you may have guessed I am not a great fan of the wilder looking XR models but I see that most people feel differrently so I've got no problem with Ford catering for the wants of the majority. But that said, I do go weak at the knees when an XR8 rumbles by :CraZ: Of course I'd have one if I got the chance.

But seriously tho, i've learnt to drive in a 3.0L and 3.5L Mitsubishi (magnas\veradas... not in the leauge of certain 220kw models...) so a you can expect I'm not too concerned about more power from the linup (but we need that extra power if we want to compete it seems). Personally I'd like to see a 190kw+ 6-cylinder. I don't have too much desire to own an eight.

that's my 2c
 

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I wouldn't say I'm a FORD nut (not enough to be burried with one anyhow :wink2:, g'day DOC :p ), but I do feel strongly enough about them to want to own one, especiallty an XR or TE. Ford have my support on and off the track, but if the product is not right (for me), I won't buy it, after all, 50-60 big ones takes some time to save/pay off, so it must be right for me, and I do realise that Ford can't please everybody, but from the rumours etc, it looks like I'll be a happy AV XR/TE owner :).

As far as what I think needs to happen at Ford...well it goes like this, Stroker has to happen for the T-SERIES with no price hike. This is almost the most important factor for a revitalised Ford/Tickford image. People aspire to own the T's so they need this to happen ASAP, whether its viable or not, it doesn't matter, a short term loss, will be a long term gain, and with only a 16 million dollar loss this year compared to Mitsu's what, over 100 million dollar loss??, so it could be ALOT worse. T-SERIES should not have been released without the stroker IMHO. Holden were able to introduce a stroker many years before Ford, we should have had it earlier simple as that. The move with the XR8 is fantastic, with the extra HP, bodykit and 17" wheels for no extra cost is whats needed, and will hopefully be all thats needed to take it through to AV, but again, the wheels and kit should've been there at the start! So that pretty much somes up my feelings for the current product.

Now to the AV. The new falcon has to be marketed well, it's styling has be well accepted as soon as the cover is lifted and it has be a leader of its class with innovation and technology, hopefully power will be up there too :) , atleast the same, but preferably more than the competitors, and we all know who they have to beat! If Ford can do this, I'll be driving one, and Ford will be number 1 again, hopefully.

And ofcourse, the AV should see the return of the GT and GTHO:D. GT (replace TS50) should be top of line with performance to match, but not neccessary for it to be the fastest in the lineup, thats where the GTHO comes in, this should be an all out wild animal, with over 300+kw, sequential gearshift (an option on GT), and AWD drive with race bred chassis, brakes, performace and interior.


With the rest of the lineup, Id like to see the cougar out of FTE showrooms, it doesn't belong there, not in it's current ford anyway, through a Turbo on it, then OK. Id like to see the Focus RS and even the Cosworth here, perfect cars that can occupy FTE showroom floors, and even the little StreetKA, not a bad looking version of what we have at the moment.

The Mustang is obviously going well, but I hope tickford are working on a spiced up version incase HSV bring out the Corvette :eek: Just quickly, about the 300+ project, I'd rather see the factory release something like this, where they get the credit for it.

The new marketing campaign is great, and the Ford V8Supercar teams are heading to the front of the pack.

So guys, I think I'll leave at that for now, and sorry for this lengthy post, DK, Ford Man, I think I deserve 50 or so posts added to my total tally don't you think..:D ;) :p
 

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JEM said:


So guys, I think I'll leave at that for now, and sorry for this lengthy post, DK, Ford Man, I think I deserve 50 or so posts added to my total tally don't you think..:D ;) :p
Well it is quite a novel you've written, if I could do anything about a post count mine would be reinstated to it's original level and so would everyone elses affected by the mass pruning of posts that was done by mistaken peple in the past.
 

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I think Aussie Pete hit the nail on the head. The average guy earning $30-$40K isn't going to be able to afford a GT Falcon and feed a wife and 2 kids.

At the base level, we want the Forte/Futura to be a class above the base Commodore. Fact is, it already is but people don't know it - because the brand image of Ford has suffered over the years. We know the reasons why, and thankfully so does our mate Geoff.

The performance Falcons need to be a class above the best HSV can spew out. They did with the GTHOs, they can do it again. Lots of ideas floating about as to what specs it should be, but in the end, the reality of commercial viability sets in. I'm sure Ford will do everything they can to mow down HSV, and we'll have to see what they come up with The 5.4l V8 looks like a promising platform.

Looking at the XR range last weekend (and then buying one!), it's easy to see that some people in Ford & Tickford have their finger on the pulse, in terms of what people want in a car. Some of us want that monster stroker V8, and probably wouldn't care if it had leather trim, and all the other goodies. Some of us are happy with a worked 6 or a mild V8 that has other creature comforts - and seeing Ford's come out with nice 250W factory stereos and factory Momo gear is what some people want.

The likes of Lowndes (Fred and crew) and Ambrose, etc means Ford can rebuild it image on the racetrack, where the influence of the sport was grousely underrated by previous Ford bosses. We will win, and win often in the extreme near future - oh yes, we will.

Ford must also ensure the aftermarket exists in such a state that if people want to modify their cars, the range is there. Someone earlier mentioned the success the US is having with such endeavours, and how it has impacted continuing Mustang sales. That should happen here as well.

From where I sit, I think Ford are doing their best to be #1 again. No doubt there are many things we all want from future Fords, but personally, I'm gonna sit back, enjoy the XR ride, and see what Ford manages to unleashes in the coming years - I don't think I'll be disappointed.
 

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The SparkleHunter™
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JEM said:
And ofcourse, the AV should see the return of the GT and GTHO:D. GT (replace TS50) should be top of line with performance to match, but not neccessary for it to be the fastest in the lineup, thats where the GTHO comes in, this should be an all out wild animal, with over 300+kw, sequential gearshift (an option on GT), and AWD drive with race bred chassis, brakes, performace and interior.
Bingo. You've hit the nail right on it's head JEM.
Ford has the three most valuable brands in the Auto Industry in this country but it doesn't (or should I say hasn't) used them to their full potential.

1. Tickford
2. Falcon GT
3. Falcon GTHO

Say those four simple letters in sequence and you've got the attention of around 95% of people straight up. These letters are holy letters to any Ford enthusiast. GTHO. It's the pinnacle of auto performance in this country. HSV GTS isn't even in the hunt. Monaro doesn't stand a chance.
If we are to ever see another GTHO it will grab the front pages of every newspaper, magazine and internet site for weeks. BUT, having said that, this car must be an awesome piece of engineering. To live upto the HO name plate, it must be in the top echelon of performance vehicles. Right up there with Cobra R, BMW-M, and AMG. You get the picture...

**Steps down from soapbox for the night**
 
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Discussion Starter #15
We got a bit sidetracked earlier on, but seem to have got back on track. As I stated earlier there is enough old stock to do a GT or GTHO. With taxes being dropped by the Howard Government, there is no reason why a simple GL sedan (old stock) cannot be transformed into a hunk of man-meat. This can be done for under $50k.
 

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JEM said:
Now to the AV. The new falcon has to be marketed well, it's styling has be well accepted as soon as the cover is lifted and it has be a leader of its class with innovation and technology, hopefully power will be up there too
I think Ford should reveal the AV like it did the XD many years ago. Start off with the car hidden in a block of ice and each week a chunk is melted/chipped away. Hopefully public interest will be big :D
 

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Martin said:


I think Ford should reveal the AV like it did the XD many years ago. Start off with the car hidden in a block of ice and each week a chunk is melted/chipped away. Hopefully public interest will be big :D
I totally agree Martin. I don't think we'll see AV, but I can't see why Ford can't show the public accurate sketches or clay models for future falcons at motorshows and things. Atleast they know where they stand straight away with its styling etc. Mazda did this with the RX01 (RX7 replacement) I think, and now the production model is identical to the prototype shown at motorshows years ago, and now Mitsubishi have revealed an accurate drawing of the 2003 Magna :eek:

Ford should do the same:thumbup:
 

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I would like to see some AWD beasts too but i think that we can only expect these longer term {2004/2005/2006??}.

What i would like to see in the meantime is that IRS lose serious weight. I mean 20-30kg min out of its 70-75kg. I think that the next XR6 has to become more affordable,much better equiped in terms of sportiness {trac control and 5 auto as VY will have} and much faster than the current ones which even with VCT cant do more than see the rear lights of a VRX or blown S pack which are a fair bit more affordable!!! Obviousley most of this stuff should be the same with the XR8 perhaps have a six manual for the XR8 aswell as the 5 auto,trac control more power etc aswell as some agressive looks. I see a 5 auto as a huge thing,it is confirmed for the VY and it will be better than the 4 and trying to convince customers otherwise would be very imposible. I thought Ford has been working on one for years and now it looks like Commode will pip them again?

T Series needs the stroker! It would be a Ford that you could buy this year and when AV comes the XR8 still wont have that sort of power. T Series needs super mean kits as standard,options{not 3k for one thanks},no cost options it doesnt matter they need them. They need power that you cant option your XR8 to aswell as standard 18 inch wheels and optional XR8 brakes need to be standard. Prices here need to stay more than competitive with HSVs. Leather,Fairmont goodies, need to continue on from now.

I think we should see one XR6 only which will be like the one described above. I dont think there is a need for 2 now that we have the Falcon S and the IRS has to become standard on every XR but i think we need a Predator 6 that goes super hard to be sold through FTE at a price between a XR8 and a TE. I think that the XR8 ute should get extra power and have IRS as an option but think that a T Series ute should be sold at FTE with standard IRS and T Series power.

I want to see a GT or even better a GTHO well worth its name. Maybe not at more than 100 grand but perhaps just under. A GTHO needs to be a super car {not like the EL which i have driven} but it has to have the best of everything{well over 300kw,6 speed,9 inch diff from the millard,19 or 20 inchs, 6 pot callipers a V8 note to die for and super slick styling etc etc} and be dear because being a supercar will mean that people who can afford it will buy it and the fact that it wont be focused on being affordable will make it more special. Make them a full model though so that they are constantly in showrooms and they will drop to say 60s and 70 thousands within a couple of years{i hate to think of the day when the VT2 GTSs and VXs become affordable to Holden buyers and go everybit as well as the day they were new}.

Cougar is doing more harm than good to FTEs reputation so get a Turbo something in there instead.


Have Fun:D :D :D
 

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I think it goes without saying that Motorsport is more important to us and Ford than the Australian open was etc etc.
 

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I think you guys are being harsh on the Cougar. Sure it may not be everyone's taste, but it is competing with Sillycar, Prelude, etc. In that market I think it is a good thing.
 
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