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Green Falcon Driver
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey lads...

Im tossing up between getting lowered springs or just getting a mate to cut em for cheap.

Has anyone done anything similar and had any problems?

Will post some pics of my beast when lowered.... ( i got my new rims... 17" of course :) )

Also how do you do the smileys in the posts?

Cheers Pat.
 

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CEO - The BSR Group
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4,400 Posts
G'day EL. I really have to say to stay away from cutting springs. I have known 3 different instances of mates doing this and it going horribly wrong and causing some pretty nasty damage. Cut springs don't know that they've been cut, and act accordingly. Correct lowered springs operate like they should because they know whats doing :D

So my 2.2c says "go lowered not chopped!" :thumbup:

Cheers
 

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The SparkleHunter™
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el2xr8 said:
So my 2.2c says "go lowered not chopped!" :thumbup:
So does my 2c.. Chopped equals trouble from what I've seen.. :eek:
 

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Green Falcon Driver
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
So what type of damage can be done? The guys who own bob jane ( where i got my rims) have 2 XR8's each....

They have cut there springs and they look real good ( and low) and i dont think they have had any troubles....
 

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EL-Phat said:
So what type of damage can be done? The guys who own bob jane ( where i got my rims) have 2 XR8's each....

They have cut there springs and they look real good ( and low) and i dont think they have had any troubles....
...yet!

Imagine the insurance hassles if these cars had accidents? They certainly won't allow the car to handle as well as a set of lowered springs, nor as well as the original springs uncut!
 

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Australian Ford Member
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1,120 Posts
My 2c also says don't do it.

I'm no suspension expert, but just reasoning from basic principles:

Springs are designed and manufactured to give certain rates and load capacities. Chopping them to any extent has to interfere with that and they can't behave the same or have the same capacity. If chopping was cheaper and safe and effective, the professional suspenison modifiers and racers would do it, and they don't.

Chpped springs are also going to seat differently in the mounts and the mounts aren't deisgned for it. It will stuff up the mounts and the suspension geometry and behaviour.

Overall, the car can't be relied upon to handle as well or predictably as it would with proper springs. Which you might find out the first time you put it on the limit on a corner, and the limit might be earlier than before, and you might have less control in trying to recover.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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I say do not under this earth cut the springs, apart from what everyone else says i've seen cars with springs cut and it looks dodgy when they corner hard and ride bumps. In under extreame cases the spring could collapse cause the rate was calculated for a certain height. :eek: :eek:

Mate from what i gather a set of lowered springs aren't that much anyway. I'm sure King Springs and Lovell have affordable lowered springs.

Alot of rice boys cut the springs the so called "dump it to the ground look". Pretty dodgy if you ask me.
 

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Same as . No cut the springs. The seat of a spring is a little bit harder then the rest in compression. New spring designed for the job. Also a note on the dampers too. Sometimes you can get away with the origianal dampers but when you alter the spring height you most likely change the spring rate. This may or may not upset your dampers under some conditions especially the rear of the car.

I have heard people talk about heating the original springs and applying compression to shorten the spring. Not the same as cutting but I would still have concerns with this method too. Every time steel is heated it alters the tensile strenght. If it was not done in a controlled mannar you could be adding a weak spot to the spring
 

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I cut the rear springs in my EB to bring it down to the height I wanted 'cause I couldn't get them that low in the particular brand I bought. It looked the part but handled **** because of all the reasons that other people have already said. Also, when you jack the car up by the body you could reach in and remove the spring by hand, so every time you went over a bump the the spring(s) would try and fall out. I finally got sick of this and went and purchased some Lovells Super Low rear springs, cost around $115 a pair. Money well spent I reckon. ;) I tried some Extra Super Low springs , looked tough but impractical if you wanted to carry passengers, tow or drive on anything but smooth roads. You may need shortened body shocks if you get lowered springs, I think Koni (maybe Bilstein too) are the only manufacturers to make these. DON'T BUY PEDDERS! :thumbdown They are idiots! They wouldn't know the frontend from the backend of a car. I posted (a rather long) story of some dramas I had with them a while back on Blue Oval News (remember them :confused:), I can try and find it and repost here if you are interested.
 

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Crazed Cone Chaser
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I'd be interested in hearing this story about pedders. I have never actually dealt with them but I always thought that they knew what they were doing.
You really cant judge a book by its cover, hey.

Paul.
 

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Do not go cut or "torched" springs. They maybe cheap but they are dangerous and illegal, car can be declared unsafe. I know mechanics who have gone that way when they were younger and all but one put proper springs on their car within a year. The guy that didn't nearly killed himself when his car lost control due to suspension bottoming out then rebounding and spitting the spring out. Same for lowering blocks under leaf springs. Save up for proper springs and shocks and you will not belive the difference. At work we lowered a brand new Mercedes C320 useing top of the line Eibach springs. I think they said it cost less then $1000 fitted but that is less shocks, we used stock shocks although the car isn't low enough to need shorter ones. The car looked great and out handled an AMG CLK55 we had at work the same day.
 

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(\/)ADXF said:
I'd be interested in hearing this story about pedders. I have never actually dealt with them but I always thought that they knew what they were doing.
You really cant judge a book by its cover, hey.

Paul.
I couldn't find the original post but basically what happened was I took my Falcon into the local Pedders branch complaining that there were some strange noises coming from the rear suspension and asked if they could check it out. They said they were pretty busy and wanted me to leave the car there for half the day. No worries I said.
I came back later and and they gave me a report about bushes in the front needing replacing. "What about the rear" I said. "Uh, we didn't look at the rear" says the idiot behind the counter. "Why not, I said, "I didn't leave the car here for the past 5 hours just for the fun of it. I specifically asked you to check the rear, can you please do it." They jacked it up, pulled the wheels off and then came back and said they couldn't find a problem!
Maybe I just struck a bad branch, or they were having an extra bad day, either way I don't care, I'm the customer and I expect a certain level of service or I won't shop there.
 

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I got one of those 40 point safety checks from Pedders when I had the EA. When I got the list, they claimed nearly everything was trashed, it was lucky to be on the road, and if I gave them close to $4K they'd fix everything!

Following some advice I got from aus.cars (ye olde usenet, older than the web itself...) I went to Straight Talk Suspension in blacktown. While he agreed the springs/dampers were worn and should be replaced, he said half the list was lies, and other parts were not in such desperate need in of replacement.

Pedders ads claim they give 'straight advice, and no bull'. It's actually closer to 'a pack of lies, loaded with bull'.
 

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Australian Ford Member
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I had similar problems with Ensign in Melbourne, who always found something extra and expensive wrong when I went in for tyres and, being a trusting mug, it took me a couple or three visits before I decided I was being had. I reckon they had an undersize rotor to pull out for idiots like me to measure it in front of me to show it needed replacement, and the same with defective shocks. Still, for a few years I had the best suspenion and brakes in the country. The same store also failed to tighten rear coils properly on a coil replacement, which I discovered a few hundred Ks away when they were getting ready to let go. That would have been fun on a fast corner in the wet. I'm glad to say that branch disappeared a few years ago. I wonder why?

One thing I have learned is never say "Is it a safety issue?", because if you do they know they've got a red hot mug who is prepared to spend money to save his stupid life. Instead, say "It looks o k to me." even if you haven't got a clue, and get them to convince you why it's a problem, and see how important it is to them after you tell them you don't have the money to fix it anyway.

I generally haven't found these problems with smaller or independent workshops and specialist dealers but only with the big chains and franchises, where they obviously train their people to squeeze the maximum dollar out of every customer. I've never responded to a free or discount check of anything offer because I know they're just trying to get me in the door so they can find things supposedly wrong to get money off me.
 

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Ford Member
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My personal experience.

I have a R31 skyline, Silohette, Series III. (its a live rear end). I knew my shocks were hammered when one of them broke in half and supported itself a while on its mount but later fell off. Made it look like a pimp car.. I noticed I had 3 diffrent brands of shocks on my car, and the rear seemed to have towing springs.. way high. I needed the full treatment.

Any way, got Monroe GT Gas shocks, and I belive Lovell springs fitted (1 1/2 inches lower). Sensor track apparently was avalible at the same price, but was pointless on a skyline.

Any how, Im happy with the suspension, it scraps a little on steep carpark ramps, but thats the only place. The ride is firmer, but not bad, even with high psi tyres.. Perhaps I could have gone with a firmer spring or shock.

From my experience:
-Don't goto pedders unless you can handle them, thier bull**** and you know exactly what you want.
-Avoid other big chain places
-I visted unquie autosports, lovely bunch up there, gave me a great price, advice, namebrand stuff, but when I asked how long "Oh we are really busy, 1 or 2 months". I needed it now. However they knew stuff. Find a enthust type shop.
-Don't cut springs, or heat them up, everyone I spoke to (machanics/mates/tech heads) said bad idea. Besides keeping the origional springs may come in handy.
-Don't go lower than 1 1/2". Otherwise everyday driveabily will be buggered. Also handling on some rough roads will be crap too.

Right now Im please with my setup, if I had my time again, I would have tried harder for maybe a 1" drop and some firmer/better shocks.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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Venom S said:
I got one of those 40 point safety checks from Pedders when I had the EA. When I got the list, they claimed nearly everything was trashed, it was lucky to be on the road, and if I gave them close to $4K they'd fix everything!

Following some advice I got from aus.cars (ye olde usenet, older than the web itself...) I went to Straight Talk Suspension in blacktown. While he agreed the springs/dampers were worn and should be replaced, he said half the list was lies, and other parts were not in such desperate need in of replacement.

Pedders ads claim they give 'straight advice, and no bull'. It's actually closer to 'a pack of lies, loaded with bull'.
Yeah i agree Pedders service is abit ****. Like when they fitted my sway bar they put farking looong pins that the sway bar was hanging down like 10cm from where it should be. But i got it sorted already by the place i go to now. I reckon their products are pretty good, so far no dramas with my sports rider gear. :D :D
For my suspension tuning i go to Wholesale Suspension in Penrith, top guys, really know what there talking about and they don't charge a fortune, and the main thing is they let you hangout in the workshop when they work on the car :cool: , i think they are the stockists of King Springs for NSW.
 

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Australian Ford Member
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IPhido said:
[-Don't go lower than 1 1/2". Otherwise everyday driveabily will be buggered. Also handling on some rough roads will be crap too.

There's a formula for working out the ideal lowering for each car, but I don't know it.

It calculates the roll centre of the car, which I think is ideal around the level of the road surface, but if you go too low the roll centre can be below the surface and this is not good. I read something on it a while back but I can't think where.

Maybe somebody else knows more.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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Yeah would be intriqued to findout the formula, I'm not a fan of super low cars seems to take the look of the car. I admit high heeled cars aren't cool either.

Also the car will look abit ricey lowered too much and we don't want that do we guys. :p :p

Thats what happened to my setup, a mate of mine said to drop the back 2 inch's and the front 1 inch, i actually done this setup and looked and looked, and there was something not right about the car, conclusion it looked abit ricey. :eek: :eek: :eek:
So i ditched the 2inch lowering block for the 1 inch block. Now it looks nice with an agressive stance IMO and keeps the profile of the car. :D :D
 

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Australian Ford Member
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The problem with super low cars is that they can't go anywhere that's not pretty flat. They scrape and bottom on driveway crossings and drains and can have trouble on bad roads. I don't see the point in going too low on a daily driver if it makes the car a problem to drive, although toys and show cars are a different matter.
 

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Not Fast Enough, Dammit!
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302 Posts
I would never cut springs, It changes the geometry of the spring and I have seen a few cars with problems because of this.
In all honesty new lower srpings are not that expensive.
 
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