Ford Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all

I have just removed the pickup from the tank in my XE falcon... I have installed a BG 220 pump with external bypass and was having some issues...

After driving it hard for about 30mins it would run out of fuel, the pump would stop priming.. I had to wait for the pump to cool down and it would prime then i could continue home.

I thought it was the filter maybe at the bottom of the pickup, but after taking the pickup out, I have reliased the return pipe is either broken or never went to the bottom :( so the return fuel would have been getting air raided which would not have helped....

i also removed the filter and tried to run water through it, almost water proof :(


Ok, so the plan is to have someone remove the two tube peices and braise in some new larger tube... I know people have done this before but is there a way of saving the sender unit? what exactly stuffs them, just the heat?

what size tube have you guys managed to get in there? and who did you use?

i live in a fairly small town and i think it would have to be a metal turner or radiator shop for this job, not sure... who'd you use?

cheers all, can't wait to get this small problem fixed as i havn't had fun hitting 6k rpm for ages!!! I did at powercruise, but had fuel dramas all day which kinda almost stuffed the fun

cheers!!





Also these show a bit;
http://users.tpg.com.au/mpracy/P6070005.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/mpracy/P6070012.JPG
 

·
74 XB Fairmont
Joined
·
5,113 Posts
A radiator shop can do it for you. Use a 3/8" minimum or 1/2" max. I don't think your problem is related to the actual supply line. I think it's due to it not sucking in enough air. If this is the case? It'll cause priming issues. My breather is 1/2" which is a factory part of the tank. I'm actually using the drain back tube on the tank as a breather. It's normally connected to a connection on the filler tube but my car doesn't have the connection on the tube as it wasn't meant to be there from the factory. Only late XB's and XC's had it. My tanks out of an XC GXL.

Another issue : Those pumps like to be gravity fed. I no longer use the factory pickup. Is there a way you can fit a rearward facing pickup on an XE tank.
 

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I was going to use 1/2" for the pickup and 3/8 for the return line...

The tank is made of plastic so there is no chance of gravity feeding the pump. What i am doing is only a short term fix until i get a cell installed...

So you are thinking the tank breather is not good enough? I think mine might be 3/8 but I am not sure where it runs to... I wil trace that this sarvo and see..

where on the tank does the breather start? never noticed it before....
 

·
74 XB Fairmont
Joined
·
5,113 Posts
The breather will be located in the same place all the plastic lines run to your canister.

You can gravity feed it. I'm sure a plastic welder could do it pretty easily.
 

·
UCNTRY
Joined
·
229 Posts
id probley be gettin it set up properly with the cell and everything first dont want it leanin out because the pump doesnt want to pick the fuel up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
I run a 1/2 line and 3/8 breather in my XD pickup. I devcon'd it in so i didn't hurt the electric sender, and used an EFI 1/2 filter, which is also devonned on :priest: (i love devcon if you havnt guessed)
I did it myself, so must be easy :hy:


 

·
74 XB Fairmont
Joined
·
5,113 Posts
UCNTRY said:
id probley be gettin it set up properly with the cell and everything first dont want it leanin out because the pump doesnt want to pick the fuel up
You don't need a cell for it to work right. I used to run a cell. I hated it due to range. I run a modded stock tank. As my last trip to the strip shows. It works just fine. My only changes were MSD dizzy, timing and tank. I'll run a 10 without a cell or fuel issues. Plastic tanks would be far easier to mod for a rear pickup. Couple of bits of fuel resistant plastic, two 1/2" bulkheads and your done. It'd be exactly the same as what the cells with the fuel sump at the back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
I did a similar thing to above,two 1/2" lines silver soldered to a thick 1/4" steel plate then bolted it to sender sealed with devcon.

You do have the correct cap fitted????? The breather is one thing but the caps are a vacuum type cap and are supposed to allow air into the tank via a one-way valve in the cap.The caps dont vent out though so fumes go through the carbon canister. The wrong cap can cause a vacuum in the tank after some time ,then no fuel since the pump wont draw it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
gregaust said:
I did a similar thing to above,two 1/2" lines silver soldered to a thick 1/4" steel plate then bolted it to sender sealed with devcon.

You do have the correct cap fitted????? The breather is one thing but the caps are a vacuum type cap and are supposed to allow air into the tank via a one-way valve in the cap.The caps dont vent out though so fumes go through the carbon canister. The wrong cap can cause a vacuum in the tank after some time ,then no fuel since the pump wont draw it out.
I tested my breather setup with a new propper cap, and with the std small breather(4 mm approx), it still didn't breathe close to properly. The 3/8 (9.5mm) worked pretty good, but i have been told to be perfect, you should match the breather size to the fuel line size.
 

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
well both the tubes in the sender are used for fuel for mine.... thats where my problem is then... I see a hose sitting there which must go to the canister...

Which case i need 3 holes to the tank... I might have to give up the idea of having a sender and just make a plate to go over the unit so i can fit 1x 1/2" and 2x 3/8"

the hassle with getting the tank modded is alot of plastic welders will want it cleaned first... then i would also have to run the hoses back out of the boot as i have the pump mounted in the left side of the boot right down low....

cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
It would be quite easy to plumb a return line in the filler section of the plastic tank not far from the petrol cap, and just run the fuel outlet and breather in the sender.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
i will be changing mine soon in the xd and was thinkuing about large bulkhead also like brenx said , a bulkhead is like a bolt with a hole through it sealed with washers and hose fittings on each end that you puit in bottom of tank just by drilling a hole , i wreckon thats the way to go and cut of the old pickup and use it for breather
 

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
xdclevo said:
It would be quite easy to plumb a return line in the filler section of the plastic tank not far from the petrol cap, and just run the fuel outlet and breather in the sender.

the problem with that is the return line is meant to be sitting sub-merged in the fuel... So te return fuel is not air raided...

would it be ok to tap in the filler tube and push some hose down into the tank from there? it may restrict filling the tank slightly but that doesn't matter...

is there a rubber hose good enough not to completely perish sittign in fuel for long amounts of time?....
 

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
what does the correct cap look like? I am using a silver cap with a key lock...
Old looking but i am not sure if its standard either...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,946 Posts
brenx said:
Pinkbits. You can't use the old pickup as a breather as it's submerged in fuel. You can however use it as a return line ;)
read pinkbits's quote :hy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
Correct cap has black plastic bit in the centre with a hole /valve in the middle.Maybe a pic would be better.The old cap like you got could be blocking the air in to the tank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
All your aftermarket cells don't have the return lines submerged in the fuel. They just have an 8AN fitting in the top of the cell and it just squirts in :hy: When I only have a few litres of fuel in mine it sounds like a waterfall! Most cells will have foam in there too which helps it to settle down.

I know those BG pumps are a little different as the return line is on the actual pump instead of the reg in the engine bay....but I have a concern with running a smaller 3/8 return line than the 1/2" main feed....as per Mallory specs. Most return lines are at least the same size to avoid any back pressure. Does BG say thats OK?

Does your pump cavitate (suck air) with a full tank or close to empty? Mine does when under brakes with an almost empty tank as I have a rear pickup.

I had to get a rego tag welded to my RCI fuel cell to make it legal.....and had to get it chemically cleaned with a certificate saying it was fuel free....about 80 freakin bucks.

Slap one of these puppies in :hehe:




 

·
82XE 351c
Joined
·
628 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
finally got some more time to have another look, from what I can see;

-The old breather rubber line is just sitting near the pickup, the breather tube on the pickup is being used for the return line to the pump.
-The old pickup feeder line is run to the pump and a new tube from the pump to the tank pickup.

So the breather used to run from the small tube on the pickup to the canister in the engine bay?
from what you say brenx, you only run yours to under the car not to a canister? using a valve or just a breather filter?


I then had a look at the filler tube, its hard to see but It had a 1/2" or bigger tube tapped into it, that goes to a t-peice.. another 1/2"+ goes away from this aswell as a 1/2" softer line which runs up and over the tank going pask the sender unit...

so if i pull the number plate down, i can see 2 big tubes off the T-piece but i am not sure where these go, 1 of them looks to tap straight into the filler tube as mentioned.
Then also off the t-peice is the softer smaller tube which goes past the sender unit towards the front of the car....

does anyone know this system or have a diagram?

I figure its ment to have in total;
-Feeder tube straight to tank pickup
-Breather tube from 5mm tube on tank pickup running to canister?

then from the filler tube
-1x 1/2 softer tube that goes past the sender towards the front
-2x 1/2+ thicker tube which go?
they all apear to tap into the filler tube via a t-peice...


hope this all makes sence, I am just trying to pick the best way so i don't waste time + money...

ps. the closest plastic welder is atleast 200kms from my shiatty town :(

thanks! all
 

·
74 XB Fairmont
Joined
·
5,113 Posts
I'm lucky as the 74 model XB's never had a canister. Canisters started in mid 1975. From the factory the XB had a very small breather line that ends just after it exits the boot cavity. The factory system works provided you don't have any fuel demands beyond the factory line spec. It has a breather but it's smaller than 5/16th.

My tanks out of an XC GXL which made fitting a big breather line easy. That line you see running up the filler tube pictured in Trublu351's pics is what I use as a breather. As I have no connection for it on the filler neck. I just ran it upward and high. Looped it, enlarged the old breather tube hole and ran the new one through as per factory but much larger.

Factory pollution setups are:

A 5/16th line that runs from fittings on the tank to the canister and then there is a line from the canister that vents. Usually that just runs under the car around a meter from the canister.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top