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G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
more...

Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.

I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all - they
lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold an
alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear after
7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
not worth the $$ for this old thing...

Thanks

--
Wound Up
TS #65
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Wound Up wrote:
> I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
> more...
>
> Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
> did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
> FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>
> I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all - they
> lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold an
> alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear after
> 7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
> The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
> not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Wound Up
> TS #65
>

From my Chilton's:

Range Preferred
------------------- ---------
Front Caster (deg.) 1-11/16P to 3-3/16P 2-7/16P

Rear Caster (deg.) N/A N/A

Front Camber (deg.)
Left 21/32P to 2-5/32P 1-13/32P
Right 7/32P to 1-23/32P 31/32P

Rear Camber (deg.) 29/32N to 19/32P 5/32N

Toe-in (inch)
Front 1/4N to 0
Rear 3/16N to 3/16P

Steering Axis Inclination (deg.)
Front Left 14-21/32
Front Right 15-3/32

I don't even know what that last one is. Maybe someone can explain it?
Anyway, hope this helps.

Arlie Cooper
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Blue Gator wrote:
>
>
> Wound Up wrote:
>
>> I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
>> more...
>>
>> Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
>> did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
>> FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>
>> I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all - they
>> lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold an
>> alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear after
>> 7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
>> The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
>> not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> Wound Up
>> TS #65
>>

> From my Chilton's:
>
> Range Preferred
> ------------------- ---------
> Front Caster (deg.) 1-11/16P to 3-3/16P 2-7/16P
>
> Rear Caster (deg.) N/A N/A
>
> Front Camber (deg.)
> Left 21/32P to 2-5/32P 1-13/32P
> Right 7/32P to 1-23/32P 31/32P
>
> Rear Camber (deg.) 29/32N to 19/32P 5/32N
>
> Toe-in (inch)
> Front 1/4N to 0
> Rear 3/16N to 3/16P
>
> Steering Axis Inclination (deg.)
> Front Left 14-21/32
> Front Right 15-3/32
>
> I don't even know what that last one is. Maybe someone can explain it?
> Anyway, hope this helps.
>
> Arlie Cooper


Okay, Mr. Warman. I did a search for Steering Axis Inclination and
found lots of confusing information before I found
www.supaquick.co.za/alignment/glossary/axis_inclination.htm . It gives
a simple but clear explanation.

Arlie Cooper
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Blue Gator wrote:
> Wound Up wrote:
> > I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
> > more...
> >
> > Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
> > did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
> > FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
> >
> > I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all - they
> > lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold an
> > alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear after
> > 7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
> > The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
> > not worth the $$ for this old thing...
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Wound Up
> > TS #65
> >

> From my Chilton's:
>


(SMACK on the forehead) I should have looked there first. I am a
doofus today!

Thanks man.

> Range Preferred
> ------------------- ---------
> Front Caster (deg.) 1-11/16P to 3-3/16P 2-7/16P
>
> Rear Caster (deg.) N/A N/A
>
> Front Camber (deg.)
> Left 21/32P to 2-5/32P 1-13/32P
> Right 7/32P to 1-23/32P 31/32P
>
> Rear Camber (deg.) 29/32N to 19/32P 5/32N
>
> Toe-in (inch)
> Front 1/4N to 0
> Rear 3/16N to 3/16P
>
> Steering Axis Inclination (deg.)
> Front Left 14-21/32
> Front Right 15-3/32
>
> I don't even know what that last one is. Maybe someone can explain it?
> Anyway, hope this helps.
>
> Arlie Cooper
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
> more...


Where's the winky, J?

> Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
> did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
> FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>
> I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -

they
> lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold

an
> alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear

after
> 7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
> The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
> not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Wound Up
> TS #65


Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Joe wrote:
> "Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
> @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
>>more...

>
>
> Where's the winky, J?
>


;)

How could I forget? I need a sarcasm booster shot, Joe!!!

>
>>Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
>>did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
>>FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>
>>I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -

>
> they
>
>>lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold

>
> an
>
>>alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear

>
> after
>
>>7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
>>The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
>>not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>--
>>Wound Up
>>TS #65

>
>
> Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...


HA! Yeah, you're right, and a beat-to-hell one at that. You should
have seen the pics I inflicted on ABPA when the old hag turned the clock
over 200,000.

Zeroes would probably work just fine. Wonder what they'd do if I said
that? Give an eyebrow, maybe. To heck with that "optimal", in 32nds
crap, doing stupid fraction conversions in my head... "did they get it
optimally set? THINK, what's 19/32 in decimal... it's uh... over .55
and less than .65, so I guess it's close enough..."

;)

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM pages: http://tinyurl.com/9yulk
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Drive it into a concrete wall at 60mph (remember to jump out before it
hits dango dango boy). That should align that fscking topaz 'properly'.

Wound Up wrote:

> I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a lot
> more...
>
> Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
> did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
> FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>
> I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all - they
> lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold an
> alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear after
> 7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
> The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem, but
> not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Wound Up
> TS #65
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in news:43CC5594.8030308
@your.disposal:

> Joe wrote:
>> "Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
>> @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>>I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a

lot
>>>more...

>>
>>
>> Where's the winky, J?
>>

>
> ;)
>
> How could I forget? I need a sarcasm booster shot, Joe!!!


Have an ABA. That'll help.

>>>Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
>>>did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
>>>FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>>
>>>I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -

>>
>> they
>>
>>>lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold

>>
>> an
>>
>>>alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear

>>
>> after
>>
>>>7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
>>>The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem,

but
>>>not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>--
>>>Wound Up
>>>TS #65

>>
>>
>> Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...

>
> HA! Yeah, you're right, and a beat-to-hell one at that. You should
> have seen the pics I inflicted on ABPA when the old hag turned the

clock
> over 200,000.


Scary thought.

> Zeroes would probably work just fine. Wonder what they'd do if I said
> that? Give an eyebrow, maybe. To heck with that "optimal", in 32nds
> crap, doing stupid fraction conversions in my head... "did they get it
> optimally set? THINK, what's 19/32 in decimal... it's uh... over .55
> and less than .65, so I guess it's close enough..."
>
> ;)


Actually, you could probably just take it to Sears and say "line it up".
I'm sure they've got the specs somewhere. They gave me a 6-month
alignment guarantee and lifetime balancing/rotation when I got new skins
on the Shoebox.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Joe wrote:
> Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in news:43CC5594.8030308
> @your.disposal:
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
>>>@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a
>>>

> lot
>
>>>>more...
>>>
>>>
>>>Where's the winky, J?
>>>

>>
>>;)
>>
>>How could I forget? I need a sarcasm booster shot, Joe!!!

>
>
> Have an ABA. That'll help.
>


Yes it would. It has magical Arrogance properties.

>
>>>>Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber, caster,
>>>>did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a 1989 Tempo,
>>>>FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>>>
>>>>I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -
>>>
>>>they
>>>
>>>
>>>>lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not- hold
>>>
>>>an
>>>
>>>
>>>>alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear
>>>
>>>after
>>>
>>>
>>>>7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly new.
>>>>The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear problem,
>>>

> but
>
>>>>not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>>>
>>>>Thanks
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Wound Up
>>>>TS #65
>>>
>>>
>>>Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...

>>
>>HA! Yeah, you're right, and a beat-to-hell one at that. You should
>>have seen the pics I inflicted on ABPA when the old hag turned the

>
> clock
>
>>over 200,000.

>
>
> Scary thought.
>


You should drive it!

>
>>Zeroes would probably work just fine. Wonder what they'd do if I said
>>that? Give an eyebrow, maybe. To heck with that "optimal", in 32nds
>>crap, doing stupid fraction conversions in my head... "did they get it
>>optimally set? THINK, what's 19/32 in decimal... it's uh... over .55
>>and less than .65, so I guess it's close enough..."
>>
>>;)

>
>
> Actually, you could probably just take it to Sears and say "line it up".
> I'm sure they've got the specs somewhere. They gave me a 6-month
> alignment guarantee and lifetime balancing/rotation when I got new skins
> on the Shoebox.


I paid for a lifetime warranty at Firestone, and I bought four new tires
from them. Actually, last year, I bought 11 new tires from them (5 for
the Mustang, 4 for the Tempo, and a pair for the wife's car).

The problem is, the one down the street apparently doesn't like doing
warranty work. The re-alignment they sort on the Tempo with its four
new tires wasn't really done at all. All they did was pull the toe in a
little, but on closer inspection, the sucker is really off, and my newer
tires are worn.

I think I'm going to take it in, and then just bring my receipt with me
when I pick it up. If the guy balks completely, I will either get a
little louder and repeat myself to let the other customers in the place
know he's bullshitting me, and/or make his tomorrow very unpleasant when
I talk to his boss first thing, then fax him everything. Hell, if I do
that, maybe I'll get a set gratis for not calling Fox 2 and talking to
them about their consumer advocacy segments.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM pages: http://tinyurl.com/9yulk
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Joe wrote:
>> Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in news:43CC5594.8030308
>> @your.disposal:
>>
>>
>>>Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
>>>>@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a
>>>>

>> lot
>>
>>>>>more...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Where's the winky, J?
>>>>
>>>
>>>;)
>>>
>>>How could I forget? I need a sarcasm booster shot, Joe!!!

>>
>>
>> Have an ABA. That'll help.
>>

>
> Yes it would. It has magical Arrogance properties.


Ayup. Wish they sold them down here...

>>>>>Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber,
>>>>>caster, did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a
>>>>>1989 Tempo, FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -
>>>>
>>>>they
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not-
>>>>>hold
>>>>
>>>>an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear
>>>>
>>>>after
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly
>>>>>new. The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear
>>>>>problem,
>>>>

>> but
>>
>>>>>not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Wound Up
>>>>>TS #65
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...
>>>
>>>HA! Yeah, you're right, and a beat-to-hell one at that. You should
>>>have seen the pics I inflicted on ABPA when the old hag turned the

>>
>> clock
>>
>>>over 200,000.

>>
>>
>> Scary thought.
>>

>
> You should drive it!


Last Tempo I drove I spun it out and nearly had a head on. That car
felt like it had no wheels and was balancing on a single ball right
under the middle of the car.

>>>Zeroes would probably work just fine. Wonder what they'd do if I
>>>said that? Give an eyebrow, maybe. To heck with that "optimal", in
>>>32nds crap, doing stupid fraction conversions in my head... "did they
>>>get it optimally set? THINK, what's 19/32 in decimal... it's uh...
>>>over .55 and less than .65, so I guess it's close enough..."
>>>
>>>;)

>>
>>
>> Actually, you could probably just take it to Sears and say "line it
>> up". I'm sure they've got the specs somewhere. They gave me a
>> 6-month alignment guarantee and lifetime balancing/rotation when I
>> got new skins on the Shoebox.

>
> I paid for a lifetime warranty at Firestone, and I bought four new
> tires from them. Actually, last year, I bought 11 new tires from them
> (5 for the Mustang, 4 for the Tempo, and a pair for the wife's car).
>
> The problem is, the one down the street apparently doesn't like doing
> warranty work. The re-alignment they sort on the Tempo with its four
> new tires wasn't really done at all. All they did was pull the toe in
> a little, but on closer inspection, the sucker is really off, and my
> newer tires are worn.


I'd take it right back there with your warranty and have them re-align
it. Make sure you get the before and after computer printout. If they
can't do that, call their corporate office and report them, then go to
another one.

> I think I'm going to take it in, and then just bring my receipt with
> me when I pick it up. If the guy balks completely, I will either get
> a little louder and repeat myself to let the other customers in the
> place know he's bullshitting me, and/or make his tomorrow very
> unpleasant when I talk to his boss first thing, then fax him
> everything. Hell, if I do that, maybe I'll get a set gratis for not
> calling Fox 2 and talking to them about their consumer advocacy
> segments.


Good luck with it. They owe you at least a good alignment and maybe
some tires. I'd tell the manager that you want satisfaction or you'll
call for a corporate refund.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Joe wrote:
> Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>Wound Up <[email protected]> wrote in news:43CC5594.8030308
>>>@your.disposal:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Joe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Wound Up" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1137425810.223170.52220
>>>>>@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I posted this in AAF, but trust this group's technical knowledge a
>>>>>
>>>lot
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>more...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Where's the winky, J?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>;)
>>>>
>>>>How could I forget? I need a sarcasm booster shot, Joe!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>Have an ABA. That'll help.
>>>

>>
>>Yes it would. It has magical Arrogance properties.

>
>
> Ayup. Wish they sold them down here...
>


I have to have them shipped. There is no place in St. Louis that sells
it. A-B must have a brute squad visiting local package stores

>
>>>>>>Does anyone have alignment specs (toe, camber, cross camber,
>>>>>>caster, did I miss one?) easily accessible to them? The car is a
>>>>>>1989 Tempo, FWD, stick (dunno if matters), 2.3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't trust this shop to do warranty work correctly (or at all -
>>>>>
>>>>>they
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>lied to me last time) and my 201,000-mile Tempo just -does not-
>>>>>>hold
>>>>>
>>>>>an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>alignment, like they are known for. I am aghast at the tire wear
>>>>>
>>>>>after
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>7000 miles... the lower control arms and ball joints are fairly
>>>>>>new. The struts are totally worn out, contributing to the wear
>>>>>>problem,
>>>>>
>>>but
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>not worth the $$ for this old thing...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Wound Up
>>>>>>TS #65
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Aah, just set everything to 0. It's a Tempo fercrissakes...
>>>>
>>>>HA! Yeah, you're right, and a beat-to-hell one at that. You should
>>>>have seen the pics I inflicted on ABPA when the old hag turned the
>>>
>>>clock
>>>
>>>
>>>>over 200,000.
>>>
>>>
>>>Scary thought.
>>>

>>
>>You should drive it!

>
>
> Last Tempo I drove I spun it out and nearly had a head on. That car
> felt like it had no wheels and was balancing on a single ball right
> under the middle of the car.
>


LOL man, that's perfect. I describe it as having "desk chair wheels".

>
>>>>Zeroes would probably work just fine. Wonder what they'd do if I
>>>>said that? Give an eyebrow, maybe. To heck with that "optimal", in
>>>>32nds crap, doing stupid fraction conversions in my head... "did they
>>>>get it optimally set? THINK, what's 19/32 in decimal... it's uh...
>>>>over .55 and less than .65, so I guess it's close enough..."
>>>>
>>>>;)
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, you could probably just take it to Sears and say "line it
>>>up". I'm sure they've got the specs somewhere. They gave me a
>>>6-month alignment guarantee and lifetime balancing/rotation when I
>>>got new skins on the Shoebox.

>>
>>I paid for a lifetime warranty at Firestone, and I bought four new
>>tires from them. Actually, last year, I bought 11 new tires from them
>>(5 for the Mustang, 4 for the Tempo, and a pair for the wife's car).
>>
>>The problem is, the one down the street apparently doesn't like doing
>>warranty work. The re-alignment they sort on the Tempo with its four
>>new tires wasn't really done at all. All they did was pull the toe in
>>a little, but on closer inspection, the sucker is really off, and my
>>newer tires are worn.

>
>
> I'd take it right back there with your warranty and have them re-align
> it. Make sure you get the before and after computer printout. If they
> can't do that, call their corporate office and report them, then go to
> another one.
>


You betcha. I'm going to be a PITA if I must. I just asked for the
specs afterwards last time, which they said the machine didn't produce.
I said, "I've always gotten one". He shrugged and walked into the
shop, leaving the teenage kid to check me out. They were closing, and I
was too tired to argue. Then I get in the car, thought I saw and felt
some sort of difference, but now I believe it was my wishful thinking.
I will just take better control of the situation this time.

>
>>I think I'm going to take it in, and then just bring my receipt with
>>me when I pick it up. If the guy balks completely, I will either get
>>a little louder and repeat myself to let the other customers in the
>>place know he's bullshitting me, and/or make his tomorrow very
>>unpleasant when I talk to his boss first thing, then fax him
>>everything. Hell, if I do that, maybe I'll get a set gratis for not
>>calling Fox 2 and talking to them about their consumer advocacy
>>segments.

>
>
> Good luck with it. They owe you at least a good alignment and maybe
> some tires. I'd tell the manager that you want satisfaction or you'll
> call for a corporate refund.


Thanks. I am actually looking forward to it, at this point.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM pages: http://tinyurl.com/9yulk
 
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