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Ford Member
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1,156 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been lookin at the US engines avalible at the moment and comparing them to what we have here, man are we lucky!!

Ford oz
5.0 V8:
220kW @ 5250/435Nm @ 4000
200Kw @ 5000/420Nm @ 3750
175kW @ 4600/395Nm @ 3200

Inline 4.0L 6 cylinder:
172kW @ 5000/374Nm @ 3500
164kW @ 5000/366Nm @ 3150
157kW @ 4900/357Nm @ 3000

Ford USA
6 Cylinder
157Kw @6500/278Nm @4750 (3.0L V6)
151Kw @4800/342Nm @3400 (4.2L V6)
153Kw @5250/320Nm @3000 (4.0L V6)
141Kw/298Nm (3.8L V6)

8 Cylinder (naturally asperated only)
194Kw @5250/410Nm @4000 (4.6L V8 mustang)
175Kw @5250/372Nm @4000 (4.6L V8 totl CrownVic)8
239kw @6000/429Nm @4750 (4.6L V8 32 Valve)
194Kw @4500/475Nm @2500 (5.4L V8 16 Valve)
223kw @5000/481Nm @2750 (5.4L V8 32 Valve)

6 Cylinder engines that are superior:0
8 Cylinder engines that are superior:2

The 5.4L DOHC V8 is the true competitor to the LS1 in the usa. I hope we see this fella over here. Ford seems to like making lots of diffrent heads for the engines.

Why would anyone axe the i 4.0? The only justification is because the yank designers want to design a crappy V6 better for FWD's.

If anything they should scrap the 3.8, 4.0 and 4.2 and replace them with the 4.0 inline in various states of tune. In FTE can fit a 6.8L V10 into a mustang, Ford US should be able to fit a 4.0 inline 6 into a mustang... And the F-150's and SUV's should have no clearance problems.

Think about the money that Ford US would save! Think about the development $'s to be spent on the oz 6! DOHC and 24 valves would be a snap, infact, a major redesign could be justified, allowing a alloy block to be developed in the interests of lowering flab, and helping economy.

Of course with a fancy new 6 cylinder factory, ford OZ could then perhaps make a modular 5.8L V8? A stroked/bored 5.4? This V8 could then be shipped for special mustangs, F trucks etc..

With the dollar the way it is, the only logical choice is to replace the crappy V6's with the inline as much as possible. Its the perfect engine for so many applications!
 

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EL Fairmont Ghia Member
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190 Posts
Politics, think about all so those yanks who would be out of work, cause of us, and then think of those lobbyist and politicians.....and that is why it aint gunna happen........

Jas

Pity, cause we do make a better 6, and I think if we were allowed we could make a much better 8 too!
 

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In a blue Galaxy
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5,716 Posts
why doesnt ford USA give Ford Australia a bigger budget so we could increase the size of out Geelong plant to build V8s? Sorta like what Holdens doing with fishermans bend soon
 

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In a blue Galaxy
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5,716 Posts
Why doesn't Ford World, ie; Jac, allow us to export our Falcons to markets such as th

for the simple fact that we would be competing directly against thier product... the crown Victoria
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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6,540 Posts
Ford Oz having the best ford 6's in the world, i'll second that for sure. Even in this guise the engine is already the best let alone when the goodies come in like DOHC and turbo. :D :D :D

Yeah the falcon would eat in to the Crown Vic and Taurus market, not to mention the other brands like Lincoln and Mercury.

Judging by the way the americans comment about our falcons, they'd choose our falcons anyday over there cars cause it's better. :D :D
 

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Ford Member
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1,156 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Well, perhaps this is one area which is wrong with Ford. Look at the figures, the oz 6 is far better than any 6 cylinder they have, and about equal to the base V8's, and we all know the oz6 has more room for improvement.

If Ford OZ can't export cars, I can understand why (I don't agree tho), why can't it export engines?

There is alot more to export than making money. Exporting adds prestige to a product, look at the Magna, they run full page adds on how its the only australian car exported to the USA, that appeals to magna buyers. Look at Holden, the Calais and stateman are the cars more oil sheaks choose to drive, plus they earn alittle more on the slow selling models to justify a little more investment. Look at how holden markets the Calais, Calais International...

Ford Australia has what? Nothing. Ford hasn't done anything scince the Capri, and thats why its still tainted with Capri failure. The Capri was more of a failure of US management than Australian execution of the idea.

So while FORD usa burns money making a new V6 for the mustang, new rwd platforms, FoA struggles with sales and funding and has exactly what FoU needs.

This is what companies do before they leave local production arena. If Ford US wants to Manage Ford AU this way, then they want Ford OZ to close operations.

If Ford OZ closes down, I hope the government at the time, pulls its finger out and does something smart. Like aquires staff and and designs and sets up a Australian owned Company.
 

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3,023 Posts
You also have to remember about fuel economy and emissions, the 4.0L wouldnt be good in either regard, especially in the tight US market. Yeah it would probably make a good engine in the F-Series but would it greatly increase sales? very unlikely. It would cost large amounts of dollars to get it operational into an actual production truck. They would have to undergo long reliability testing, (could the Falcon 6 withstand -20C temperatures for 3 months of the year?) A huge used parts network has to be installed throughout its dealers, and a many many people have to be trained on how to fix the thing. And how well do you think their unions will respond to all their lost jobs due to this new engine?

The costs would outweight the benifits 10 fold.

It just wouldnt add up, the old girl just has to be put to pasture, and its replacement (3.8L V6??) will have more power, better economy, better emissions, lighter, smoother and a better spread of torque, probably even more torque if its designed right.
 

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EL Fairmont Ghia Member
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190 Posts
Re: Why doesn't Ford World, ie; Jac, allow us to export our Falcons to markets such as th

Cobra said:
for the simple fact that we would be competing directly against thier product... the crown Victoria

Yeppas, this I know, I was sorting of using that question to answer this thread in a way...............

Jas

:p
 

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The SparkleHunter™
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10,144 Posts
Martin said:
The costs would outweight the benifits 10 fold.

It just wouldnt add up, the old girl just has to be put to pasture, and its replacement (3.8L V6??) will have more power, better economy, better emissions, lighter, smoother and a better spread of torque, probably even more torque if its designed right.
Money talks and bullsh*t walks. Right now Ford Oz has stuff all of the folding stuff which gives it stuff all bargaining power.

I hope you're right on the new 6 Martin. It would be a big mistake to have huge power gains in the final laps of the I6 and the windsor. These new motors must produce more power, more smoothly than their predecessors. Can you imagine the embarrasment if we had a 175kw(??) I6 to be replaced by a 150kw V6?? Ford would be the laughing stock of the ages.. (again!)..
 

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7,750 Posts
Martin said:
You also have to remember about fuel economy and emissions, the 4.0L wouldnt be good in either regard, especially in the tight US market. Yeah it would probably make a good engine in the F-Series but would it greatly increase sales? very unlikely. It would cost large amounts of dollars to get it operational into an actual production truck. They would have to undergo long reliability testing, (could the Falcon 6 withstand -20C temperatures for 3 months of the year?) A huge used parts network has to be installed throughout its dealers, and a many many people have to be trained on how to fix the thing. And how well do you think their unions will respond to all their lost jobs due to this new engine?

The costs would outweight the benifits 10 fold.

It just wouldnt add up, the old girl just has to be put to pasture, and its replacement (3.8L V6??) will have more power, better economy, better emissions, lighter, smoother and a better spread of torque, probably even more torque if its designed right.
Spot on Martin. It is a world market these days and that is the way future models will go. Just disappointed Ford didn't buy BMW 12 months ago.:(
Then we would have had some engines to play with.
 

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Ford Man said:
These new motors must produce more power, more smoothly than their predecessors. Can you imagine the embarrasment if we had a 175kw(??) I6 to be replaced by a 150kw V6?? Ford would be the laughing stock of the ages.. (again!)..
It is definitely worrying with all this trend towards "globalisation" and the possibility of loosing the straight six that's doing the job better than any other Ford six. Martin is right in saying that the fuel economy of the 4.0 might not be up to scratch for the US market, but it has so much potential.If it was developed further the economy could improve and along with it emmisions. More than likely the current emmisions aren't bad anyway.:rolleyes:
If/when a new six ends up in a Falcon it could possibly be heaps better and we'll all have nothing to worry about, but looking at what's around at the moment the current 4.0 is superior.
At least on the V8 side of things I don't reckon we have anything to worry about. The future looks bright.:cool:
Russell.
 

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T5 Expert Operator
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Yeah it's all to do with research and development which equates to cost. I bet given the budget the can make an IL6 bang up to date on emmisions and fuel economy. I mean they did a major upgrade for the EA on the engine making it OHC, surely they can take it a step further now but using the base block.

I reckon theres too many benefits that out weigh the negatives about the inline 6.

As what Rastus said about globalisation, it's a trend and a business means but it doesn't mean it's a better alternative on a technical basis.

I mean if we get a V6 that would almost certainly be of the US which will be a 3.8L. I really doubt this engine is as smooth as our current IL6. I can certainly bet we'll loose the grunt that ford six's have been known for.

Suddenly we got a Camry Falcon, "not happy jan".
:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

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Future XR Owner
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2,245 Posts
I'd love the I6 to stay, but I think the decisions made, and it will be going. We will have to have faith in the engineers over at the Geelong engine plant in spicing up the V6, but ofcourse it may be a beauty outa the box, it will be a newly developed engine, not one thats around now.
 

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JEM,
hope your right, i'm still protesting probably more than the lobbyiest of the tasmania hydro dams :p about the Inline 6,
but i guess "last option" if they do go down the path of V6 at least keep the displacement of 4.0L and make it at least 3 valve per cyclinder.
 

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In a blue Galaxy
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5,716 Posts
the IL6 lies in the hands of the AV. If the AV is another flop then theres a good chance we can say buy to broadmeadows aswell. I doubt we'll ever see anotehr falcon produced in Australia. But lets not dramatise, If the Barra is a success and it has a DOHC IL6 then I cant see the yanks giving it the flick. but it won't be replaced until, atleast 2005 whcih still then isnt a certainty. I hope by in 4 years time we'll still be here and still chating about out beleoved IL6, but not worrying about it being extinct but ways to make it even better ;)
 

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No offense, but some of you sound exactly like the Holden fans when they got word that their 304 V8 would be discontinued.
Now look what they've got, the best motor in a locally built car ever, it may not be the most advance but it can sure pump out the horsies.

And one thing I hate about the 4.0L I6 is working on the front of the motor, youve got about an inch of room. On the Commo V6 theres about a foot of room, im sure without the radiator you could probably stand in that space :eek:;):eek:
 

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Mustang Member
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re: the Aussie Capri

I own a 93 Capri XR2 turbo. Having had my car 5 years I ddont think the car was the problem.

Ford never backed the car the way they should have and never carried any parts. I also belong to a Capri forum and most people love their little cars. Sure it leaks but I havent had a convertible that didnt.

I dont think it was marketed properly and sold properly.

I can pull up at a gas station and people still come up to me and ask me what kind of car that is. When I tell them that it is a Mercury Capri first is shock to find it was sold by Mercury. Typical response is " That's a Mercury??" Second is disappointment that it is no longer being sold.

I went to a Mercury Dealership in 1992 to see about buying one and couldnt get anyone to talk to me. They wanted to put me in a $30,000.00 car. When I stated that I wanted a $13,000.00 Capri they turned cold. There were also no brochures or pamphlets I could get. In 1994 went to a new car show and that was first time I could get any info on the car.
 
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