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After going all last summer without (cold) air conditioning and being under the impression NO PLACE has R12 left (old gas for those not in the know), Ford trying to convince me to go to 134A (newer gas) "that's the only way you'll have cold air"
I finally found an Auto Elec that has R12, Needless to say I'm happy now as the EA is cool :) and Adelaide has a week of +36c temp. (40c today)

Cost $188 for Full re-gas, pressure test system and add a shot of dye to test for leaks, dye shows under UV light (again for those that don't know)

-Disclaimer, had to add the "for those that don't know" parts cos there was a time where i knew sweet nothing about air cond stuff and would have let ford do the full changeover they said i "had to have done".
Now know that not ALL the parts need to be changed anyway, just a select few.
-done with my ramblings for now.
 

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Crazed Cone Chaser
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You're lucky to find someone that would re-gas your system with R12, as its illegal now.

I either need to do the same thing, or get mine updated for the new gas. At the moment it is running on some other crap that doesnt work very well.
 

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They advertise that they still have some left so I'm not sure if it's illegal, it was just phased out for enviromental reasons. If they have some it might aswell be in cars than in cylinders sitting in a garage.
 

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Another Ford Driver
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Dunno about automotive air conditioning, but in other applications all that really needs changing when converting to R134A is the oil in the system as R134A is not compatible with the mineral oil used with R12. Really its probably not worth the fuss of searching out someone who has some second hand R12 lying around.
 

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The oil for R134a eats away at the seals for R12, so you really need to change the seals for the conversion, they also have to fit retro-fit valves so that they can fill it.

R12 is illegal to use.

R134a is now being phased out. and being replaced with something else, unsure of what.

ER12 has been used by many places to replace R12, but it has much poorer performance than the original R12.

FR12 is apparently a much better replacement than ER12, but i can't say i have tried it to know myself.
 

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Crazed Cone Chaser
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ER12, thats the crap i've got

Either I'm low on gas, or it just sucks, its never worked very well, so I'd say its crap
 

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greetings all
FR12 is great as a drop in alterative

regards
rod
 

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Crazed Cone Chaser
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Do I have to get the oil changed and seals and stuff to use FR12, or is it a direct replacement for R12 and subsequently ER12?

Anything that works better than what I already have has to be a good thing.
 

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FR12 is a straight replacement for R12, they made FR after ER12 because ER12 was crap. FR12 is a lot better and can use the R12 oil.
 

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#FAIRMONT GHIA#
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R12 can still be purchased (by AC speciallists), got my car gassed up with R12 the other week by the AC guy i use and he said that its not illegal and they still sell it (NSW).
And my air works great!
 

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Yes sorry i do stand corrected it is not illegal to use, it is illegal for them to sell.
 

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the actual story behind r12 is that a federal bill was passed banning the manufacture of r12 after january 1993 for ozone depletion reasons. however they didnt say how much u could stockpile before the cutoff date. if u search for it u can still find it but most places charge approx $100/kg for it. the suppliers of the stuff arent really interested in selling to the small man either. i used to work on the docks in port hedland, when a passenger liner would come in we would pump in 30 tonnes of gas only to have it regassed again when the ship arrived in fremantle(and they try and make me feel bad for releasing 500grams to the atmosphere).

ER12/FR12/HR12 all work much the same and can be used as a standard drop in. they are hybrids of several gasses. the best part about them is that they all run at incredibly low(lower than R12) pressures which puts less strain on a weak system. HR12 is the only gas which is legally allowed to be released to the atmosphere, can be topped up and u dont need a licence to work with it.
R134a was introduced in 93 to all australian vehicle manufacturers. this actually runs at a much higher pressures and i'm not convinced it is any better than any other gas out there. very cheap to buy though - approx $15.00/kg with the UV dye already mixed in.

of all the gasses i can get pretty much the same results(give or take a degree or two) at the vents.

it will all change again in a few years. all the gasses above may be ozone-friendly but they all contribute to the greenhouse effect.

hope that clarifies a few things
 

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Apparently another bill has passed to stop them making R134a? because of it being cancerous was the story i was told any truth to this?
 

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R134a works fine in R12 compressors if the oil is changed. i think the bill that was passed was that you now cant let R134a gas out you have to catch it like R12 had to be.
 

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EA Turbo Clone said:
Apparently another bill has passed to stop them making R134a? because of it being cancerous was the story i was told any truth to this?

thats news to me - but anything's possible if it gives the pollies something destructive to do. i still use and have no trouble buying r134a. er12 and fr12 are both 55-60% r134a anyway so the automotive air conditioning industry would fall in a hole if that were the case. just another little titbit about er12 and fr12, they are also 8-10% butane.
 
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