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remember it was the United States who supplied HIM with weapons to fight the Iran/Iraq war.

"President Bush sends his regards" From one terrorist to another.
 

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Only one country has EVER used weapons of mass destruction and guess which one that is ???
 

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Now watch the rednecks come out of the woodwork. Remember Timothy Mc Veigh was a FORD ENTHUSIAST!!!!
 

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XC, alls i can say is...... meh

has bush ever gassed someone? nop.
has bush ever raped/tortured/etc? nop.


again........ meh



nb..... hows about when you post, you edit ur post so that everythnig is in the one post, rather than do 3 or so posts, one after the other

theres a little edit thingy down on the left there
 

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All I can say is after serving in both Gulf Wars as well as deployments to help in the Coalition against Terror is the Thank God they have caught him.

This guy not only caused heartache and death in Iraq he was also responsible for deaths of more than a few of my friends related to the stress of service as well as medical problems due to Gulf War syndrome.

My service in these wars also contributed to the recent breakdown of my marriage.

No matter what you think of American policies or Australias. The best thing that could have happen was to have the soldiers throw in that hand grenade.

At least then Saddam would have been gone forever and the world saved the cost of dragging him to court when they are only going to take him out the back and shoot him anyway.
 

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has bush ever gassed someone? nop.
has bush ever raped/tortured/etc?

YES! He, as govenor of TEXAS has sentanced many people to death. And his brother as Govenor of Florida holds the record. Dont fall for their propaganda. They INVENTED weapons of mass destruction, anthrax etc, etc.
 

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Saddam only stayed in power so long because most who opposed him were jailed or executed. He wasn't exactly the people's choice. It also shows how little he thinks of his country when he builds all these exotic palaces for himself by taking funds from the public.
 

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xcgxl said:
Only one country has EVER used weapons of mass destruction and guess which one that is ???

Yes, that was to end WW2 otherwise you would be speaking Japanese today.

And one day when China becomes ever so powerful you and your lefty friends be relying on the Americans instead of critisizing them.
 

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xcgxl said:
remember it was the United States who supplied HIM with weapons to fight the Iran/Iraq war.

"President Bush sends his regards" From one terrorist to another.
Please take another look at your history books and other information free available please. It was not only the US, but Germany, France, England and most of the Free world as well as the not so free world that was selling him weapons, WMDs and technology to produce such things. It was France that sold him chemical and biological weapons, it was N Korea that he got missles from. It was also France that sold him plans, helped him build and almost complete a Nuclear facility. Of course, these things are never brought up. Shall we look at the Iraqi AirForce? Jets were supplied by Russia and the last of them were of the Mig23 configuration. Even Hitler's Germany had ties to the Iraqi Govt, but that is another lesson in itself. Germany sold weapons from guns to grenades to anti personnel mines to anti tank weaponry to Iraq for years and continued to do so after sanctions were imposed. Someone needs a little refresher in history I see. Are you not aware the reasons why France, Germany, Russia and China were opposed to a regime change? SImply put....Russia and China each controlled 5.8% of Iraqi imports from medicines, food, weapons and aid. Germany had $1.35 billion in annual trade with Iraq, directly or indirectly up to the point of the regime change.

It is reported that in 2001 that UN sanctions had cost $200 billion in lost trade to Iraq’s trading partners, including $40 billion to Russia, $35 billion for France and $25 billion to China. Even the UN itself benefited economically from the sanctions and inspections regime. Perhaps this accounts for these countries lenient stance toward Iraq and complete angst for the US for wanting to remove this dictator from power. Wow I am starting to get off topic so I will stop with that bit. But I will reply to your other remarks


xcgxl said:
Only one country has EVER used weapons of mass destruction and guess which one that is ???
Again please take your blinders off. Where shall we start? DO you know what WMDs are? Ok since you fail to grasp this concept i shall explain. WMDs can consist of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical agents that are used in weapon form.

I guess with that you will need a little history lesson as well. Do you remember a little skirmish called WWI? Where the use of Chemical and biological weapons was unleashed to the masses? In the first month of the war, August 1914 it was the French that fired tear-gas grenades (xylyl bromide) against the Germans. This was the "First Use" in any wartime scenerio. Now granted it was the Germans that gave serious study to the development of chemical weapons and the first to use it on a large scale, which happened to be on 22 April 1915. It was the form of a shelled chlorine. The French did not know what was going on and assumed it was a cloud to hide an advancing brigade of Germans. They only found out afterwards what the real threat was.

It was then the british that adopted the use and abuse of the Gases. They progressed from Chlorine to Phosgene a similar gas to chlorine, but quicker reacting and more violent. Both sides adopted this gas. After these became more and more used by both sides the Germans looked for something better, per say. The Germans continued to adapt and expand on their arsenals, to unveil an enhanced form of gas weaponry against the Russians in September 1917. This was the now infamous mustard gas, which is an almost odorless chemical. It is distinguished by the serious blisters it causes both internally and externally, brought on several hours after exposure. This is a nasty agent and a widely used agent still.

This is why in 1925 the adoption of Geneva Protocol against chemical weapons was introduced and fully adopted.


xcgxl said:
Now watch the rednecks come out of the woodwork. Remember Timothy Mc Veigh was a FORD ENTHUSIAST!!!!
Where have you been? They are out. They have been out and they are all over the place. They hide behind feable attemps of what they call patriotism and the greater good of mankind. I am not talking just GWB either. Take a look at most of the governmental heirarchy. That in itself is enough said.




xcgxl said:
has bush ever gassed someone? nop.
has bush ever raped/tortured/etc?

YES! He, as govenor of TEXAS has sentanced many people to death. And his brother as Govenor of Florida holds the record. Dont fall for their propaganda. They INVENTED weapons of mass destruction, anthrax etc, etc.
See here again we need a little lesson. Not only are you fatally getting everything wrong you are projecting your hate for one person as the sole purpose of your discussions. Since you fail to grasp the concept of the US justice system and the role of Governor I will have to elaborate on that for you as I have above, unfortunately.

First, the adoption of the death penalty in the Texas Penal code system was introduced in 1819. That was way before young GWB's daddy was even floating around in his daddy's testicals, but we can expound on it further for you.

Texas used Hanging from 1819 - 1923. From there they progressed from the "inhumane" method of execution to move on up to the electric chair. So instead of dangeling there and choking them to death the sent enough electricity through their bodies to Fry their brains, internal organs and blood. This went on until 1977 when Lethal injection was adopted. It was adopted only due to the fact that there were protest by human rights activists that the criminals had "rights" and should be expanded rights, even though they (the criminals) took the rights away from others. Anyhow this can go on, since i am a pro-death penalty person, but I will spare you. Also, so you are informed. The first prisoner executed by lethal injection in the United States took place in Texas in 1982. So please tell me how Pres Bush, when he was not even a thought was responsible for the executions and instatement of the death penalty?

Further the Death Penalty information for you. In Texas, the district courts have original jurisdiction for all criminal felony cases. If an individual is convicted of a capital felony, he/she may be subject to punishment by death, if the State sought such punishment. A capital felony is one in which an individual "intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual," under special circumstances. In particular, the murder of a public safety officer, firefighter, or correctional employee; murder during the commission of specified felonies (kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated rape, arson);
murder for remuneration; multiple murders; murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional officer; murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses; or murder of an individual under six years of age. In Texas, a person must be of at least 17 years of age at the time of the crime to have the death penalty imposed upon him/her.

After the verdict is rendered, if the defendant is found guilty, the case is automatically appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeals. If the prisoner loses in the Court of Criminal Appeals, he/she may then appeal the case to in the following courts: Texas Supreme Court; the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals; and finally then to the United States Supreme Court.

Now where in there is the Governor responsible for handing down anything remotely as the death Penalty or for that matter pulling the switch, pushing the needle in or hanging the convicted? They are not. Ohh wait you will say that he had the power to stay the exicution. Which is right he did have that power. But that bit is a limited power to grant clemency to the prisoner. In capital cases, the Governor has the constitutional authority to grant an offender one 30-day reprieve of a scheduled execution without a recommendation from the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. Upon a recommendation from the Board, the Governor may grant one or more reprieves in a capital case for any period of time that does not exceed the period recommended by the Board members.

So know that your theories have been put to rest and have been proven wrong please elaborate on how GWB killed and raped and gassed inmates or for that matter anyone in the Texas Penal system. Please elaborate on how he sentanced anyone to death, for that matter to any term of imprisonment.
But I know you will say he is still responsible even though you do not clearly have a response that is going to back what you say. Please before you go attacking any one person because of your political views have the information at hand. I dont care if you are right wing, left wing, ultra conservative or a freaking tree hugger. If you are going to make statements on things that you "feel so strongly about" please have the information to back it up.

This will get heated. I am advising everyone now that we need to keep this to a calm and rational discussion. There is no need to attack each other and this discussion can go on if it stays that way. Again I am not intending this as a Flame, attack, prod or butt raping. This is for those that are not in the know. I did direct some of these comments above in response to xcgxl due to his mis-information, but these should not be considered attacks.

Regards,

John

***EDITED for a typo, yes i know there are more, but hell what do you expect for 9 am and no coffee.
 

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I don't want to start any heated discussions, but I think it's interesting that nobody has mentioned Israels WMD collection - I wonder how many people know all about that. LunaticSVT, it looks to me as though you know a fair bit about all this, so it wouldn't suprise me if you know what I'm talking about.

Oh, and let me just state, for the record, that I have no problem with people from Israel, Iraq (I think that most people there were simply unlucky to be born and raised there), or any other country I can think of. I have had bad experiences with people from some particular countries, but I understand that it's not right or fair to tar and feather all the people who belong to a particular group, simply because of what a minority did.

I think it is important to remember that in most cases, if not all, it's not the general public in a particular country that are the problem, but the few people who weild power, no matter if that means that they run the country, or they are able to 'convince' the person/people who run that country to do whatever they want through whatever means they have available.

Ok, ok, I'll get off my soapbox now :)
 

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Good grief,Lunatic. Are you a Professor or just someone with a incredible amount of time on their hands?

It's the US that has contributed to the sanity on this planet. Without us,the USSR would be ruling right now and you would be told what to think,what to do,where to work,how much you're getting paid if at all,and how to worship-you DON'T. Without us,Hitlers Reich could be ruling this planet right now,and you would have freedom only as they dole it out. I think the world tends to forget this,and instead we become the scapegoat of everything bad they can dream up. Much like true policemen,they're hated until they're needed. We just happen to be the present target of resentment for whatever reasons...not signing on to the 'Kyoto Agreement' or some such crap,or not joining the corrupt 'International criminal court'. Whatever. It is frustrating as a American to sit and listen to,that's for sure. Why some would even question why we went after Saddam is crazy to me. Or maybe the myriad warnings and resolutions sent out by the UN meant nothing after all,hmm? If the police came to you time and time again after you were repeatedly breaking the law and only delivered warning after warning,what good would that do? The guy is on record breaking resolutions time and again,with no repurcussions. He was trouble for the entire decade of the 90's and even before that. Much like our 'beloved' :fraz: ex Pres Klinton who repeatedly ignored going after Bin Laden. What happened from that,hmmm? We 'slapped' him on the wrist,if at all.....and then 9/11 happened. We're in a different age now...we cannot wait to be hit,and we will not. If that gets you in a tizzy,then I suggest you have a experience similar to 9/11 and see if that changes your mind.... Mr. Bush is doing a great job with the terrible cards he's been dealt. And I will vote for him again,hands down. I cannot imagine what would have happened had Gore been in office. Thank God we never had to find out!
 

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Oh I get it, there are good terroristas and bad terrorists. You need to keep it simple for this Ford enthusiast.
Which goverment doesnt take money from the public and spend it on themselves? Howard is the only prime minister to refuse to live in the lodge and commutes to Canberra each day by jet. 30 years ago a back bench politician was paid the same as a school teacher.
 

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The MaDDeSTMaN: I am aware of WMDs of Israel. I know that they too have done some serious attrocities, but the US glares a blind eye at them. No comments on it, because that in itself is another story and debate for another time. But alas, yes they too have possession of WMDs and have many banned weapons at that. Remember Israel is a military state basically. I repeat basically.

As you stated it is not the general public that is at fault in most of these countries. Most are subjegated to following or being killed for not. Most are oppressed. But agian that is another topic for another thread. :)

Sportster : Now I am not claiming to know everything; by god I hope I dont know everything, because that would just flat out suck not being able to learn anything new. I just happened to have an very keen interest in political and social history and keep up with current affairs domestically and internationally. And so you know i have a bit of time on hands, but that second typing was just a quicky that I rattled out in 10 minutes.

/me is a fast typist.

xcgxl: Instead of rattling off crap to hear yourself speak why not point out these supposed flaws that you are so keen on dribbling nonsensical fecal matter about on the pages in here.

How is anything that has been discussed in regards to "terrorism" as you are soo wanting to imply? You come on and readily bash the President of the US by saying he is a terrorist, then come on in another post right after stating that the US is the only country that used WMDs. You then come on babbling something about rednecks with no basis or foothold to discuss anything regarding that?.?.?.? Then someone throws a rock at your boat regarding gassing and you go off once again with how the president is bad. How he did these things as gov. of Texas. I show you how wrong and misinformed you are, and then you come in here with remarks of bad terrorist and good terrorist with nothing to base any discussion off of that remark. Please explain your comments instead of running in flinging crap like a caged monkey and leaving. it would help us all out.

Ok so you state what govt does not take money from the pub and spend it on themselves.....ok so you are aware of the real world. You know where things cost money to buy, repair, run, operate and to be maintained? How do you expect any Govt to run on NO budget? Your point of that comment was?

Now you go on about Howard. Ok. You have a beef with him and how he decides that he wants to live and commute. Mind you it is your choice to vote. You dont vote you really have no right to complain. If you want to make changes then put your efforts into campaigning or helping the campaign for the opposition or some party of your chosing. Complaining about it and not taking action is useless.

Pay, as with anything is increased ith responsibility. Running a country and maintaining over 30 million peoples lives and teaching 30 youths in one class for 8 hours a day is a huge difference. Are politicians over paid. That is an opinionated and two sided question that will only result in arguements. It takes money to have the right people in the right positions in the corporate world, why would it not be the same for someone that is in charge of a country. Is his role not that important? I think that it is and they are paid close to what they are worth. But hey, that is an opinion that is mine and you do not have to like it, but it is mine and others in my position.

Please if you want to argue then make a point and dont just babble nonsensically in here. Having to read into what you are trying to say does not help your case. People will and can misinterpret what you are trying to say.
 

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LunaticSVT said:
Please explain your comments instead of running in flinging crap like a caged monkey and leaving.
:rofl:
That slays me :)

Lunatic, thanks for a very good read. Once again, my respect for you climbs another notch or two. :bowd:

I think xcgxl with comments re politicians spending was probably referring to dodgy spending for personal gains (borderline corruption) - e.g. Travel Rorts or influencing contract choices etc.

I also understand some of his sentiments towards the payments of politicians. While I fully appreciate the role that they take *is* important, I also wonder whether the potential for personal gain (financial or more intangibly in a "power", "influence" ego sense) is more of a lure, than the intent to serve the community in the best way possible. Unfortunately, I think this is a flaw in both the political system and humanity in general, and have no idea on how to address it. But this is kinda off topic ;)

Sportster, not having a go, but I think you'll find that the general line of "USA is great, we saved the world again and again, you'd be screwed without us" is part of the reason the US isn't so popular... True or not (I'm not going to debate it), I'd say its universal that no-one loves the ego-maniac ;)
 

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LunaticSVT said:
Now you go on about Howard. Ok. You have a beef with him and how he decides that he wants to live and commute. Mind you it is your choice to vote. You dont vote you really have no right to complain. If you want to make changes then put your efforts into campaigning or helping the campaign for the opposition or some party of your chosing. Complaining about it and not taking action is useless.
Lunatic here in Australia we have no choice we get fined if we don't vote we get fined if we don't register to vote, so we have to vote.

Jason
 

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Dellboy999 said:
Lunatic here in Australia we have no choice we get fined if we don't vote we get fined if we don't register to vote, so we have to vote.

Jason
Ok I was not aware of that. Thank you for the information.

John
 

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Dellboy999 said:
Lunatic here in Australia we have no choice we get fined if we don't vote we get fined if we don't register to vote, so we have to vote.

Jason
Yup, which means they get a lot of "Donkey votes" - people who just write 1 2 3 4 in the boxes from top to bottom, or they leave out boxes (making it an invalid vote), or they put letters in the boxes such as "S C R E W A L L O F Y O U", or they don't actually write anything.

It also means that we get a lot of people who don't really care, or who don't know much if anything about the candidates or what they stand for, voting for "whoever has the nicer photo" or the nicest sounding name.

I think if our system was a bit different, we might not have ended up with Howard as our prime minister - I know I didn't vote for him...

I think the system is flawed, but I have no idea how to fix it...
 

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LOL!!!

XR-I don't know if it's 'egomaniacal' or just being proud of our accomplishments. I don't know that we want to 'flaunt' it as I only brought it up because I feel we get flogged constantly. We've laid down ALOT of blood for this world to be free today,and I think the world has forgotten that fact. I think we get treated terribly sometimes,that's all. We can handle good,truthful criticism,but when it comes from pure hatred or jealousy or irrational thinking,then it becomes a issue for us. There's always going to be those who hate us,for whatever reason,but when it starts coming from FRIENDS like Britain and the Aussies and others,then it starts hurting....it's beginning to feel like we're alone in a world gone mad sometimes.....
 
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