Ford Forums banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Australian ED XR6 Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have reason to remove a diff centre from a "single wheeler" Borg Warner diff (XF Vintage) But alas I'm finding it a tad difficult to remove the gears from the housing. Maintenance manual says you should use a spreader to "flex" the diff open enough to facilitate removal.
Question is: Does anybody know of a simple way to do this? (I really wanna avoid buying a "specialist tool" for this one off application)
Thanx in advance.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
hire said specialist tool?????? I am not aware of any easy way that doesn't invole 6 foot crowbars and an oxy torch.. I assume you want to use the housing again too ??

jeff
 

·
Australian Ford Member
Joined
·
1,120 Posts
Wulos

I looked at this on my XF and decided against trying it, partly because of the spreader and also because of the various specialist tools needed to set it up once you get it back in, and setting it up properly sounded like a lot of experience would help.

I asked a mate of mine, who's built lots of Chev / Holden based cars and held a national drag title years ago, about using a diff spreader and he just looked at me blankly and said "What's a diff spreader?". When I explained, he said he'd done tons of diffs in Holdens etc and never needed or heard of a diff spreader. Thanks, Ford.

I thought about making a spreader myself. It wouldn't be hard with some bar and rod for the pins (you could drill holes through the bar and put rod through for the pins) and some threaded rod for the expansion, as long as you got fine threaded rod because as I recall there were warnings about not exceeding about ?.3 ?5mm, which is pretty fine when you're turning a spanner.

I dont't know if it can be done without a spreader, but as the shims have to fractionally oversize I couldn't see how to get it back in without one.
 

·
300+rwkw DC LTD Member
Joined
·
1,622 Posts
DIFF erent

Why do ya want to remove the centre? I swaped the centre with the housing, etc. I kept my axles, brakes, etc. Alot easier...

I hope this helped...
 

·
Australian ED XR6 Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I guess a little more information would be of help. The car will be used for "burnout competitions" (Diff by C.I.G.):p ;)
XA Coupe - Have you had any experience with this type of diff, as I was told that they will flex "reasonably" easily with a couple of large screwdrivers, hence my asking for 2nd opinions. The mate who said this, said he has done it himself (catch was he lives 300kms away, otherwise he'd be doing the job for me)
EA S - From what I can work out the tool flexes the diff housing inwards to allow clearance for the crown gear(or is it the pinion - I always get the 2 mixed up)
 

·
Australian Ford Member
Joined
·
1,120 Posts
Wulos said:
EA S - From what I can work out the tool flexes the diff housing inwards to allow clearance for the crown gear(or is it the pinion - I always get the 2 mixed up)
Wulos

Bearing in mind I'm an expert who has never done it and whose sole qualification is that I read up on it a while back and decided it was too hard, and that I was looking at XF diff which might be different (in other words, my opinion is worth bugger all) my recollection is that the diff had to spread outwards along the axle line to allow the over-length crown wheel carrier to clear the sides of the housing. It is fractionally over-length because shims are put on it to make it that way for a tight fit when installed. It'll be a lot clearer if you can get a manual with illustrations.

The pinion's not an issue for the spreader. It's a lot smaller than the opening. The pinion's the bit at the front that is at right angles to the axles and it turns with the tailshaft.
 

·
Australian Ford Member
Joined
·
1,120 Posts
Wulos

2 postscripts

My earlier reference to ?.3mm ?5mm is dangerously wrong - a decimal point was omitted and there should be a point in front of both figures. Try to spread it 5mm and you'll need a new housing long before you get there.

I decided to go the way LTDHO did and just get a whole axle housing with the diff intact rather than swapping centres. Dropping an axle and replacing it, whether disc to disc or just putting your axles etc in the other housing seemed a lot safer and easier and quicker, because it didn't require specialist tools or knowledge. But that's no good to you if you can't get the ratio you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
I would be suggest to replace the whole assy. Unless you have a fair degree of technical knowledge, you are asking for trouble trying to swap the centers.
If you do happen to get the old center out and somehow get the new center back in (with correct spacers/preload shims), actually setting up the tooth contact and bearing preloads is fairly critical (especially if you plan burnout comps) Without the tooth contact and preloads correct, theres a good chance that first time you pour on the juice, the crown wheel could step sideways and chip or break teeth off.
You may be lucky and get it close but imo its probably not worth the time and effort.
Go with the whole assy
 

·
Australian ED XR6 Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
With the internal mods, preloads, clearances etc "should" stay identical. Only possible area's of concern will be balance issues & how far axle splines engage. Considering total cost for the project so far is still beneath $500 I think I'll give it a go & see what happens. If I kill this diff, on to Plan B.:cool: :cool:
The whole thing is a learning experience after all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
Wulos, really your best bet is to transplant the whole diff or get a 9 inch !! I read about it all and decided it was more trouble than it was worth (with all the preloads etc etc ) and put in a new diff..which then busted ( so did 3 others ) before I spent up on a 9 inch. Otherwise take it out and take it to your friend !!!

jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,316 Posts
yeah ... too bad its a coil spring rear ... otherwise with a bit of shopping around a disc 9 inch isn't *too* expensive ... but is all relative of course !!
 

·
Two SC 61's = trouble
Joined
·
6,360 Posts
I fixed a B/W diff lsd in my 302 Escort years ago.I put boiling hot water in the housing that was enough to get the thin shims etc back in,What a job.I'd rather replace the whole diff.But how many Escorts run 3:08 lsd B/w's ??
 

·
Australian Ford Member
Joined
·
1,120 Posts
ebxr8240 said:
I fixed a B/W diff lsd in my 302 Escort years ago.I put boiling hot water in the housing that was enough to get the thin shims etc back in,What a job.
Very inventive! The heat obviously makes the opening surround expand away from the hole.

What about the reverse, by putting the crown wheel carrier with shims in the freezer - maybe it would contract enough in length to go in, with or without the boiling water trick?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Last time, the only time thank god, I saw someone make a CIG diff he simply welded it while it was still in the car! Yes he was a bodgey bugger but it was only a Holden speedway car!
 

·
Australian ED XR6 Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
FTEfan - Welding up of diff's in "streetstock" speedway cars is fairly common practice. The main reason for this is that it "strengthen" the diff (or so I've been told) & that with the ratio's preffered for dirttrack use, primarily being only available, cheaply at least, come from 4 cylinder cars(helps keep the costs down)
The question I'd like to ask is, how'd he weld up the gears, whilst they were still in the diff housing? (Are the planetary/sun gears accessible by just removing the diff cover on the holden diff? - Mission impossible for the BW diff in the XF)
 

·
Australian ED XR6 Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
NB. Welding up a diff should never be considered for a road car.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
Wulos said:
FTEfan - Welding up of diff's in "streetstock" speedway cars is fairly common practice. The main reason for this is that it "strengthen" the diff (or so I've been told) & that with the ratio's preffered for dirttrack use, primarily being only available, cheaply at least, come from 4 cylinder cars(helps keep the costs down)
The question I'd like to ask is, how'd he weld up the gears, whilst they were still in the diff housing? (Are the planetary/sun gears accessible by just removing the diff cover on the holden diff? - Mission impossible for the BW diff in the XF)
They tend to weld up the spider gear area so the diff is locked ie drive to both wheels fulltime for dirt tracks cause if one wheel spins too much all the time there is not only massive traction loss but the spider gears also can seize and the diff craps out.As said welding these up will not work on a car used on the road.I would suggest if you are going to pull out the crown wheel on your car then you should get it done by an expert.There are a number of things to do to set up the diff properly if you don't want it to whine and generally be a pain in the butt.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top