[defective]

G'day.

Ive been offered a T3 turbo, rebuilt, for my EBII 4L I6 MPFI and I just wanted to ask a few questions before I decide if I want it or not.

First of all I guess the main question is will the engine be able to handle a turbo without changing anything in the bottom end? The engine is in good condition, does not blow smoke and runs very smooth, and seems rather stable in the bottom end, however I would like to get some reasurance that I do not have to go for lighter pistons or anything before fitting a turbo.

The second question is how hard can I push up the boost on the turbo? It comes with a manual boost valve, and hes got it running 11 pound at the moment, but what would be best for my EB?

And I guess it all comes to this: Is it worth it? The turbo might be free but for the money I may have to outlay on getting the car fixed up to install it is a T3 turbo really going to do much for the car? The car has had a little bit of work done to it, and my mate's going to include his intercooler as well, or am I better off saying no to the offer?

The only reason why its being offered is that he is changeing to a different turbo and being the nice guy that he is he has offered it to me.

Any comments welcome, pro or con...

Thanx in advance,
Defective.

 

[Walkinshaw]

the whole setup (if you are getting turbo and IC for free) will still exceed $3.5k to do a 1/2 decent job of it.

as to if it will be worth it. How much do you like seing Gen3's in your rearvision mirror???

 

[ebxr8240]

With 6/7 Lp boost you should make around 180 to 200 rwkw..
Depends on turbo size as T3's are just big enough..You won't have any engine trouble if you have correct fuel system and timing/ tuning..Atleast 24 Lp+ injectors for under 8 Lp.Then an aftermarket ecu or some sort of tuning aid to run bigger injectors and less mid rpm advance..Ecu with boost reference is imo better...

 

[defective]

So it sounds worth it then, but what about the engines bottom end? Do I need to do anything with it if im only running light boost? Or will I need forgies. Ive got the day off today so im going to head down to my mates garage and have a talk with his race mechanic about it, see what he thinks, then prob phone my mate at ford and get him to ask around so hopefully ill have more of an idea what im going to be up for after that, but I still want to hear from people here as well, the more I know the better.

Im getting conflicting information of the EB's bottom end as far as useing a turbo on them and I have to get his sorted before I proceed with it. Its a Garrett T3, cant remember the rest of the info, my pads out in the car and I cant be stuffed going out and getting it.

Oh, the other question, do I need to change my compression at all to run the turbo?

Thanx again all,
Defective.

 

[ebxr8240]

Bottom end is fine.Pistons are ok under 10Lp boost.Its realy detonation or bad tuning that kills engines most the time...Depends on condition of engine..
A T3 is realy a small turbo it will spool realy quick..
Depends how far you want to go to make power? Use better pistons when you rebuild it latter.. There are alot of other things to get it up and runing correctly first.An aftermarket ecu for instance,injectors,fuel pump....
24Lp injectors will get you around 180 rwkw..30Lp+ is better and leaves some safety..

 

[not ford]

I would not use the turbo if it was smaller than a RB25 turbo.

Any smaller than this IMO would be a waste of time, it would spool instantly and run out of puff before 4000rpm. The early spooling would put a lot of strain on the tranny and diff because of all the torque and the standing start. Also the loading would be more prone to detonation due to the low speed loading on the motor. You can get around this with an aftermarket ecu, giving the ability to pull out timing where you want.

Also a intercooler on a stock motor is mandatory with a small turbo.

ebxr8240 has summed it up "Its realy detonation or bad tuning that kills engines most the time". If a tuner tells you otherwise he's either stupid or tyring to get money out of you.

Also to get 180rwkw you will need to up your base fuel pressure from 38psi to about 55psi and thats still on the limit of 100% duty cycle.

As for the strength of the 4.0 OHC motors. I know someone who slapped a very small T4 turbo with intercooler onto a totally stock motor (change nothing including the ecu). He tried to blow the motor up for 3 weeks while his other motor was being built, running 10psi. The motor survived and in the end he rebuilt it because the other motor was too stuffed to rebuild.

 

[AU2XLSV8]

T3 is small but free and easy to upgrade down the track. With good tune will produce 150-160 rwkw (my guess) heat soak will be main problem at higher boost. Good tune, injectors and intercooler (if in budget). It's worth the effort. Good cheap ($ - kw) power upgrade! You'll have some skylines and commonwhores running for cover!

 

[defective]

LoL, I already have commonwhores and some skylines running for cover. The EB has no problem against VS commo's which scares the shit outa their drivers (not used to being out run by what looks like a rather stock EB).

I droped into my mates shop today and had a talk with the mechanic (still havent talked to my mate from Ford though). His only recomendation was to make sure my rings where ok and to replace the head gasket with an aftermarked one, damn it, again notpad in car so I got no idea what sort he was on about but it was meant to be less prone to blowing. Thing is I think that was done by the previouse owner so ill have to check it out...


On another note, what sort of power can the EBII's automatic tranny handel? Im getting alot of conflicting information here also with some mechanics saying their very strong and will handel a fair bit of power and others saying the moment I start to do anything major im going to need to find a manual or drop in a commo tranny (which is ofcourse NOT an option). I personally was always under the impression that the series II's tranny was able to take a fair bit, and this ones in excelent condition with a fairly heavy tranny cooler on it. Any figures would be nice here.

But it sounds like the egine should be able to run the turbo without too much problem, but once I get the time to take the engine out and strip her down I think ill be opting for some forgies, but that is IF I ever get the time, probably just have to put the damn thing into the shop and have it done.

This is all very appreciated guys, thanx.
Defective.

 

[ebxr8240]

Head gasget I'd only replace when stuffed. Maybe replace head bolts ??Remember you WON"T have to rev it 1/2 as hard as before in n/a form..
A T3 ??? what engine did that turbo come from?? If its from a VG 30 single turbo you'll be o/k.These are made by Hitachi and are super 60 T3 in Size with quite big exhaust housing .63...Ball bearing and spin like 150.000 rpm...
Is there any numbers on housing etc...

 

[AU2XLSV8]

Hah commo trannies! What ever! The only things i'd be worried about is 4th (overdrive) but thiers plenty of auto's that can fit to replace. Read my signature, c10 auto in an Au, 3 speed. This was for the s/c setup because the t5 went south! My mate with the ED turbo (t3/4) had auto went manual and is now going back to auto.

Think about porting those heads if you pull them off!!!!!!! relatively cheap power to be had!

A good head gasket is essential probably talking about 'Felpro'! Head bolts are a great idea to help clamp that head down nice and tight.

I was talking v8's commonwhores and R33 skylines!

 

[not ford]

AU2XLSV8 the T700 is the only tough USA box that you can bolt to the back of the EA-onwards motors. Not even the USA Ford AOD will bolt up. The turbo gearboxes are the only USA boxes that are readily available in Australia. All BTR/Borg Warner stuff has zero aftermarket support whereas a transpak ($120) kitted T700 will handle 400fwhp easy. The T700 has alot of parts for it addressing all its weaknesses. The overdrive issue only relates to the box being in lock-up as well, the different fluid routing starves the box of oil.

A shift kitted BTR box either via the soleniod or switch starts to get marginal at 250rwhp. It will be less than this on an average condition box with none or little extra cooling. If you blow up yours I would try to get a EF-onwards box replacement, they're supposed to be the best.

 

[AU2XLSV8]

I already blew up an auto on my el with my s/c in fourth gear (4:11 diff)! This was a six and i went manual after that before getting my Au! My current box (c10 3 o/d removed) had good dose of 400+fwhp and was pretty happy. I know of 3 auto turbo xf's running ford boxes and they got some huge (250+++ rwkw) numbers behind them. I may be wrong and i appretiate the info if i am. Believe me if it goes i'll let you know, and have a laugh with you about it!
But it's not my current experience. One of my best mates in vic runns around 200rwkw and is going for more but not til after he fits an auto and he (with a lot of advice) is going a late model ford box.
I am not the most knowledgeable on auto trannies, i only go on my experience and what i've seen and been told.
Thanks for the info though, at least i know who to chase down info from if/when it goes.

 

[Walkinshaw]

problem is C4/6/10 wont bolt up to the E series 6cyl. Neither will a T350/400/700/700R/4L60E.

 

[not ford]

problem is C4/6/10 wont bolt up to the E series 6cyl. Neither will a T350/400/700/700R/4L60E.

It will with a Rod Shop adaptor.

 

[DansEdgli]

gas 250 runs a C9 trans behind his turbo 6 and with his old turbo was putting out around 370ish rwkw now more, maybe that could be adapted to the OHC engine.

 

[Walkinshaw]

only problem is that the bellhousing has the starter on th otherside of the moton on the C* trans'. I suppose CRS makes a new belhousing that bolts straight up???

A kitted TH700R would be a good box behind a turbo 6. It would offer overdrive and yet still have the strength to hold the power. Only problem would be that it is a commo box in my EA...;(

The only problem i can see with the C4/6/9/10 is that they are 3speed boxes, i really dont like my car over 2400rpm @110kmh, so it rules out going for a low diff ratio. Oh why are AOD/E's so expensive ;(

 

[DansEdgli]

I would still use a T700 if CRS made a bell housing holden or not, A 4th overdrive gear is way better than a damn 3 speed. Revving at 2500 with only 2.92 sux at 100km/h.

 

[RevHeadRon]

aren't there a few different types of turbo700 gearbox? i thought there were the electronic ones used in commodores, and older ones used behind chev V8's

 

[not ford]

aren't there a few different types of turbo700 gearbox? i thought there were the electronic ones used in commodores, and older ones used behind chev V8's

T700 small input shaft (ended about 87 same as V6 commodore)
T700/4L60 large input shaft (All Holden V8)
4L60e electronic control (All Holden from VS)

The V6 tranny does not use a turbo pattern bellhousing and has a smaller input shaft. This is still fine to ~420fwhp without slicks provided the tranny is good and has some shift kit. The small shaft limits USA upgrade parts.

The Rod shop adaptor would be a plate with spacers or a flywheel for coupling.

 

[EA Turbo Clone]

There is nothing wrong with Ford's BTR boxes, just look at some of the supercharged and turbo falcons, six's and V8's getting around with them, the only weak part in the 4 speed is the 4th gear, which is actually because of a metering ball bearing that is made of teflon that shrinks over time and drops down and blocks the oil gallery to 4th gear, and can be fixed up so that it doesn't happen again by replacing it with a steel one.

If properly computer controlled the BTR boxes are good for 600fwhp, so why bother changing.