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Not Fast Enough, Dammit!
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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wondering what thoughts you guys had on oil additives like Nulon etc.
Does anyone use them?
Has anyone got any proof either to support or go against them.
By oil additives i'm not refering to things like 'stop smoke' either.
:eek:o1:
 
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Personally I don't see it being any benefit unless the engine is old or burning oil.
Regular oil change and the right oil like every 5000km's would keep the internals of an engine clean.
 
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Don't use anything with teflon in it ie; nulon,slick 50, fortron etc etc. Very bad for engines. Plus many of these additives have heavy metals which combine with other chemicals to cause acids to form which will eat your bearing shells.

I use "Eliminates Friction"(or EF) by Horizon products in Perth.
I gained 18rwhp on my cleveland with this stuff. You only need 3% of it in your engine oil too. Unlike all these other crap additives that require one or more bottles. It has no teflon, no heavy metals and no distillates(which dilute your oil).

Pete.
 

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XR9UTE said:
....... You only need 3% of it in your engine oil too. Unlike all these other crap additives that require one or more bottles. .......
Pete.
By my calculations 3% of 5.5litres (AU) is 165cc which is very close to "one bottle"

I have seen and heard many excellent reports on Nulon in particular. I have used it for years in my cars and 2 stroke motorbikes and havent had or heard of any problems.
I use it in the engine, trans, powersteer and diff. No problems at all.
My engine seems to rev more freely with Nulon added. I use E30 in the engine. I still change the oil at regular intervals.
 

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Yeah i'm with Mbrown42, i have used Nulon E30 in-conjuction with Mobil One and my engine is now 198k and it sounds and drives as good as when i took it of the showroom floor.

Mbrown,
Recently i've switched to E-20. But i'm thinking i should continue with E-30 when do you think it's best to switch from E-30 to E-20.
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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Well, from where I sit, having done REAL fleet analysis on some of the additives out there, they are all rubbish. Use a good oil to start with and you will have no problems.

One product that did work was LTM Filtration. Uses a micro-bypass filter that has proven to be very effective on the diesel engines we trialled them on.

Additives - blllaaahhhhhh!
 

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Shh i'm huntin more power
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Aussie Pete said:
Well, from where I sit, having done REAL fleet analysis on some of the additives out there, they are all rubbish. Use a good oil to start with and you will have no problems.

Additives - blllaaahhhhhh!
I agree with Pete, they're a waste of time. I've seen engines die, because people have put additives in their oil and turned it into treacle. I've also seen the crap that comes off injectors when people think they can be cleaned with an additive. Additives are a waste of time and money and will more than likely cost you more in the long run IMHO...
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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Right on Jase.

We had a number of trials and in one case on a heavy duty diesel the vendor was doing the testing and feedng us results. The oil tests showed great results, but I got to talking to one of the other engineers and we smelt a rat. We took an oil sample ourselves and sent it to Mobil for analysis. The metals were way high and the neutralisation number so far off the scale it was a joke.

We pulled the engine down after telling the vendor to take off. It was cactus! And I mean the crank was a throwaway for starters. $80,000 later we proved the stuff was junk.

Don't believe these snake oil merchants!
 
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Aussie Pete said:
Right on Jase.

We had a number of trials and in one case on a heavy duty diesel the vendor was doing the testing and feedng us results. The oil tests showed great results, but I got to talking to one of the other engineers and we smelt a rat. We took an oil sample ourselves and sent it to Mobil for analysis. The metals were way high and the neutralisation number so far off the scale it was a joke.

We pulled the engine down after telling the vendor to take off. It was cactus! And I mean the crank was a throwaway for starters. $80,000 later we proved the stuff was junk.

Don't believe these snake oil merchants!
Unfortunately this generalisation about "snake oils" is the reason that EF will not get the recognition it deserves. Don't get me wrong I was exactly the same. I refused to believe anything was capable of reducing friction that much.

I have seen the results of this substance and it's nothing short of amazing. There are truck companies using this in the north west and have reduced diff and trans failures to ZERO! Formally they would get only 15 000 K's from a Diff. They've even put a few drops in the wheel bearings(which previously failed after 50,000) and have since had NO failures.
These guys tried oil coolers,changing oil after each run, other additives the lot. They've logged diff and trans temps and with EF observed reductions of 80 to 150 degrees!
Oil analysis reveals wear metal content a fraction of what it was.

One Truck guy in Esperance has gone from 1.4K/Litre to 1.1K/Litre fuel economy.

Pete.
 

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XR9UTE said:
One Truck guy in Esperance has gone from 1.4K/Litre to 1.1K/Litre fuel economy.

Pete.
Horse Cr*p. Sorry, but 21.5% improvement in fuel consumption by oil additives is crock.
 

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XR9UTE said:


Whatever you say Dickhead!
Now now pull your head in. It wasn't personal. Go study a book on tribology and tell me where 21+% comes from. I would believe smaller gains, but not this!
 
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Aussie Pete said:

Now now pull your head in. It wasn't personal. Go study a book on tribology and tell me where 21+% comes from. I would believe smaller gains, but not this!
Pull your own head in!
Saying it's horse crap is just the kind of generalisation I'm talking about. You know nothing about this stuff yet you write it off before even seeing it for yourself because you lump it in the "snake oil" category.
That is head in the sand stuff!

The guy has it in the diff, gearbox and engine of his truck and it results in this increase in fuel economy.

Pete.
 

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Shh i'm huntin more power
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21% is a pretty big gain for an oil additive. This 'ef' stuff for it to be able to reduce friction how does it work? Unless it changes the properties of the oil it would have to leave a coating on whatever it touches, which means you're going to have things starting to get build up which will mean premature failure. If it doesn't leave a coating then it would have to make the oil thinner. Have you measured your oil pressure with stuff before and after???
 

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Guys,

Firstly don't think theres any need to fight, it's merely a discussion and an exchange of ideas.
I guess what it comes down to is whether it works for the individual or not.
I mean i do know of shonky additives and i've heard of ones that really are amazing.

I'm not here to comment whether additives work or don't work in general.
By the same token, it should not be forgotton that car manufacturers need to make money. Thus if there is a product that will extend the life of a component dramatically the manufacturers will be naive about it. Spare parts is a big business.
 

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XR9UTE said:
Pull your own head in!
Saying it's horse crap is just the kind of generalisation I'm talking about. You know nothing about this stuff yet you write it off before even seeing it for yourself because you lump it in the "snake oil" category.
That is head in the sand stuff!

The guy has it in the diff, gearbox and engine of his truck and it results in this increase in fuel economy.

Pete.
Whatever you think. Like I said, you have to look at it from the perspective of fundamental physics. Use the formula for friction between two lubricated surfaces and tell me how in that fundamental formula you get 21%.

I don't want to go into this any further other than to say at the end of the day, you can't argue with physics. Like I said we did a HUGE study on these sort of products, and NONE even came close to the claims (and we were being objective I assure you). Worst of the lot was a product called TOJO9000.

(Aussie Pete cancels order for his new heads et al to substitute with a can of oil additive that gives a larger 21% gain..... :wtf: :whoaa: )
 

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On the subject of Teflon additives i cannot see how it will damage an engine. Basic principle is it coats the engine internals with a teflon layer, hence when engine is cold theres a protection player on the metal to metal contact, hence reduced wear on startup. I realise power gains claimed are very very sketchy.
but if an additive is only used every 80k i don't think any harm will be done to the engine, i reckon at worst it does nothing.

With my engine running like new at 200k i find it pretty hard to believe that the engine will suddenly break down.
 

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(Aussie Pete cancels order for his new heads et al to substitute with a can of oil additive that gives a larger 21% gain..... :wtf: :whoaa: ) [/B]


XR9UTE never said it would make a 21% power gain. He said HE gained 18rwhp in his ute, and after reading about his car there is no way that this is a 21% increase.
 

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Homer? said:


XR9UTE never said it would make a 21% power gain. He said HE gained 18rwhp in his ute, and after reading about his car there is no way that this is a 21% increase.
Listen here dickhead, are you doubting that I would get 21% gain from EF additive. :s6: :p I was talking about ME, not YOU! :s3 :s6: :BW: My plans are in place and I am saving a fortune. Plus I'll get economy to match a four with the power of an eight. :shh:

(Sorry, had to keep the humour going!) :s5
 
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Aussie Pete said:

Whatever you think. Like I said, you have to look at it from the perspective of fundamental physics. Use the formula for friction between two lubricated surfaces and tell me how in that fundamental formula you get 21%.

I don't want to go into this any further other than to say at the end of the day, you can't argue with physics. Like I said we did a HUGE study on these sort of products, and NONE even came close to the claims (and we were being objective I assure you). Worst of the lot was a product called TOJO9000.

(Aussie Pete cancels order for his new heads et al to substitute with a can of oil additive that gives a larger 21% gain..... :wtf: :whoaa: )
All of what you say ignores the fact that some designs are more efficient than others. So,even if you did get a 21% reduction in friction doesn't mean you'll get a 21% reduction in fuel use.

Eg: A couple of guy's at work have 4.0L wagons with EF in them. They return about 9.5L/100 down from 10.5-11L/100. Mind you they haven't put it in the diff or transmission yet.
Actually you can't put EF in cone type diffs or autos with one way roller clutches because they actually stop working.

Obviously
A better idea for your car would be to get the heads and put some EF in it as well. Or you could bury them in the sand along with your head.

Pete.
 
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