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Discussion Starter #1
G'Day,

Putting in my new Tremec TKO gearbox next week - ahh, an overdrive for my 4.11's! Currently running a toploader in an XD Falcon ~3500lbs.

Looking for advice on what ratio to put in my new 9inch rebuild - in the process of getting this thing into the 11 sec ET's - drag racing in mind.

I was going to keep the 4.11's but the Tremec 1st gear is so low: 3.27 vs toploader 2.78. It will probably launch the front end up with slicks but 1st will be over in a bees fart!

Tremec ratios: 3.27 1.98 1.34 1 0.68
Toploader ratios: 2.78 1.93 1.36 1

Keeping in mind 11 sec ETs get around 110-120mph - here's the MPH info for my car shifting at 6500rpm w/26.5" tyres.

Toploader with 4.11's
1st-45 2nd- 65 3rd-92 4th-125

Tremec with 4.11's
1st-38 2nd-63 3rd-93 4th-125

Tremec with 3.5's
1st-45 2nd-74 3rd-109 4th-146 (and a bloody huge 215mph in 5th!)

So what to do? Will 3.5 or slightly lower ratios hurt my mid to late track acceletration? or will the 4.11's be a waste of time with the tremec 3.27 first gear? or is that a good thing? Hmmm?

Thanks for your advice.
AdrianXD
 

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What about 3.7 in the rear? Is the Tremec conversion easy? is it a bolt in. I currently have a toploader and want to upgrade to a Tremec.

What were your times with the toploader, should give us more of an idea if you'll get 11's

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #3
G'Day Cleveo,

My XD is only running 13's at the moment (still only have OC 2V's and mild hydraulic cam).......looking at going alloy 3V's and a big solid cam......just trying to get info off other people who may have 11 sec car using a 4 speed manual.

The tremec conversions aren't too bad. I got a brand new Tremec TKO when I was in the USA - it only cost me US$1350 brand new with a shifter and heavy duty driveshaft yoke (thats AUS$1755 at todays exchange rate!)......dodgy buggers here are charging $3500-4000.

First thing you'll need is a new bellhousing. The bolt pattern is the same as the toploader but the input shafts are slightly longer. Some people machine a bit off the input shaft and use their toploader bellhousing but this voids your warranty........I guess if you buy one second hand it doesn't matter. "Dellow Automotive" in Sydney cast their own alloy bellhousings for tremec conversions - that was $400 and now the box bolts right up - fits my hydraulic clutch and starter motor. There are spacer plates to fix this problem too but warranty doesn't allow them.

I got a TKO which has a 26 spline input shaft so you'll need a new 26 spline clutch disc. The standard tremec 3550's have 10 spline input shafts, same as toploader.

The TKO output shaft is 31 splines and my new yoke is F100 size! It won't fit my XD so I have to get my driveshaft modded once it's fitted. Standard Tremec is 28 spline output shaft. Can't remember what toploader is?

My XD electronic speedo will fit straight in, or mechanical ford if you have one. You'll need a new plastic speedo cog (Dellow's supply them). DON'T use a toploader one - they're OPPOSITE direction splines and will chew out.

Spiggot and clutch release bearings fit straight on....I hope!

And I think thats about it!

Biggest thing I'm looking forward to is the overdrive. It's 0.68 so it will drop a third of the RPM. 3300rpm at 100kph will now be 2200.

Cheers,
AdrianXD
 

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Sounds great what a great price, I might have a look at the US suppliers and see if I can get one into the country, might have to pay 10% GST but it will still be a lot cheaper.

Is the TKO stronger whats the HP rating that it can handle, as opposed to the standard Tremec? Also the o/d is either .68 or .8 I think did you have an option?

These boxes are excellent for quick 1/4 runs and economy as you can run a lower ratio.

I might stick with the std as there seems to be less mods, hope it will handle to power through it :)

Paul
 

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TruBlu351 said:
Biggest thing I'm looking forward to is the overdrive. It's 0.68 so it will drop a third of the RPM. 3300rpm at 100kph will now be 2200.

Cheers,
AdrianXD
3300rpm at 100kmh with 4.11's?

My 3.5:1 spins about 3200rpm at 100kph, my mates 4.11:1 geared 9" is closer to 4000rpm at 100kph!

What tyers are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
G'Day,

Definitley worth looking at importing it yourself and maybe paying some import duty - I'm sure it will still be cheaper.

The standard Tremec 3550 and TKO have 0.68 overdrive. I believe its the "TKO 2" that has the 0.8 5th gear. Better topend acceleration for road/circuit racing when 200mph with the 0.68 is a little high!

According to my Tremec service manual (2.6 meg PDF file) it says the TR-3550 is good for 350ft/lbs of torque and the TKO can take 375. I've read other places that say the can handle heaps more than this. The TKO is definitely stronger. The TR-3550 was US$100 cheaper so getting the TKO was a done deal. If you're interested in getting a Tremec from the US, I can give you the details of the Mustang/Ford speed shop that I mail ordered mine thru when I was there. Even in the US there's a BIG difference in prices people charge for them. Out of about ten suppliers I called the cheapest TKO was US$1350, others were ~US$1600. The 3550 is still a strong box though.

My XD is running BIG 295/50x15's. When I put my cheescutter 205/50x15's on I can feel a huge difference in RPM for the same speed. That's a 26.6" diameter vs 23.1. You can see my car pics in the Gallery under TruBlu351 user name.

Here's a cool driveline/tyre size calculation website.
http://www.chrismans.com/Calculators.html

Cheers,
AdrianXD
 

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TruBly351 - could you please post a few of the US sites up that sell the TKO box?? I'm looking into a manual conversion soon, and if a TKO is that cheap, then I might get one.
 

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TruBlu351 said:
First thing you'll need is a new bellhousing. The bolt pattern is the same as the toploader but the input shafts are slightly longer. Some people machine a bit off the input shaft and use their toploader bellhousing but this voids your warranty........"Dellow Automotive" in Sydney cast their own alloy bellhousings for tremec conversions - that was $400 ... There are spacer plates to fix this problem too but warranty doesn't allow them.
Love to know who you are getting your warranty advice off. All Wrong. Your box has no warranty in this country. Get back to me when it vibrates in third gear with the setup you are running.
 
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WBT56, please elaborate on that problem.

TruBlue351, could you please advise exactly where you got that box from cause I'll be passing thru California and was looking at getting a TKO. It should be no problem taking it on the plane on the way back. Is the TKOII much more expensive
 

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turbotrana said:
WBT56, please elaborate on that problem.
You will most likely find that if you check the bellhousing it is outside the Tremec parameters for out of parallel and non-concentricity, causing vibrationand shift issues, particularly with third gear.
 
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Are you talking about the quality of Dellow Bellhousing machining not being accurate for gearbox mounting.
I have a dellow bellhousing for a Supra conversion that was out of wack in three areas of machining that caused me big problems (including vibration)and personally would never buy from them again. The Castlemain Rod Shop is the only other place I know of that I will try in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
All good points! .....thanks for the heads up.

There are bellhousings in the US to suit tremecs but I've found none that use a hydraulic clutch set up. One of those areas where I guess you're stuck between a rock and a hard place! for a cleveland??

Yep, I'm hearin' you about warranty issues!!................what warranty!!

I've got the Dellow bellhousing already, haven't fitted it yet. Turbotrana, recommed any way I can check the bellhousing for being parallel and cast nice and square?? Where was yours all gooned up? I can always send this sucker back to Dellows and persue a different avenue. I'm not a fan of having my new tremec pack in due to some dodgy bellhousing - I 'm sure Dellow will buy me a new gearbox!!!...not!

Whats your recommendation WBT56?

I think there's a Mal Wood in Queensland who does these conversions too?

I got my TKO from www.poweredbyford.com in Orlando, Florida. About as far away from California as you can get! but the cheapest I could find. Contact these guys for their latest price and get the ones in California to match it.

Here's some others in California. (don't think the TR-3550 comes with a shifter, it is standard for a TKO - ask your supplier). An awesome aftermarket tremec shifter available is a PRO 5.0.

http://www.brothersperformance.com/contact.html (listed TR-3550 for US$1299 & TKO for US$1449)

http://www.hawaiiracing.com

www.centralcoastmustang.com ???

Hope this helps,

Cheers
AdrianXD
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sorry I missed one question...........the TKO and TKO II are the same price. The TKO II is called the "road racing" version. It's exactly the same except it has a 0.83 5th gear instead of a 0.68. Better for circuit racing, as throwing it into a 0.68 5th is a big drop and won't accelerate as quick.

For the street I'd go the TKO with the 0.68......and reap the full bennefits of enjoyable highway cruising. You'll already be doing 200kph winding out 4th (tyres/diff?).

Cheers
AdrianXD
 
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I got a supra conversion bellhousing from Dellow about five years ago for a Holden 202. I ripped out the engine a couple of months ago. I found the spigot bush worn out about 2 to 3mm (could have contributed to the gearbox breaking). Upon further inspection, the input shaft only went into rear crank about 6mm, which left about another 7mm of the input shaft end that could have been used for bearing surface. This basically caused this area to wear prematurely. I rang the "kid" on the phone and explained the situation, he said normal for it only to stick in about 6mm. I asked do you reckon I could machine the bellhousing to make the gearbox sit closer to the engine. He said you cant cause the clutch would foul. In any case the "kid" was making it up as he went along. I got my machinist (who is one of the best in Perth but cant tell who) to take off 2mm one end and 5mm off the other. He said that both sides were out of wack. I checked the centering of the gearbox in relation to the engine block and crank with a dial indicator gauge and found this wasn't exactly right. Put it back together and no fouling. However I still do have a slight vibration at cruise at about 80kph that cant track down. I rang up the Rod Shop and they said that their input shaft go entirely into the rear spigot. So I would certainly check out their work. What pissed me most is the "kid" (he was probably early 20s) who was making answers up that suited him as he went along, so there is really less chance of anything getting resolved unless you chuck a spat.
 
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To be more specific Tru Blu351, my machinist put the gearbox side of the bellhousing down on a milling machine to machine the engine side only to find the engine side out from one side to the other by about 30 thou. He then turned it around and found that the gearbox side wasn't completely flat. So it definately was not square but the real proper way to do it is on a jigged lathe. Really only the manufacturer has this set up, but if they dont position it properly when doing it, it will then be out of whack. There are alot of butcher machinist out there, they just couldn't give a sh-t.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I spoke to the Dellow guy today - wanted to clear up any of these dodgy work rumors.

Input shaft hanging out 7mm doesn't sound cool. Sucks that you got the teenager kid answering you - I would have reached down the phone line and choked him! - I spoke to the owner who sounded quite genuine - stands by his work, they have been around for 40 years so this does say something. Sounds like the "kid" has been practising some metal work on your job after school - slack mug.
He swears that the bellhousing I bought will be square - he's had plenty of feedback from other customers. He (the owner) was really eager to talk to you about your problem.

One guy bought a third hand tremec and a got a new bellhousing from Dellows. The bloody bellhousing won't work he says........took it to Dellows - after inspection, the first owner of the tremec had 20mm hack sawed off the input shaft!!...and then machined it to fit the spiggot bearing! Thats gotta suck!

The only other options are "spacer plates" about 19-20mm thick from Mal Wood in QLD or the Rod Shop. They fit between the standard toploader bellhousing and tremec gearbox (bolt pattern is the same). This effectively lengthens the bellhousing to accommodate the longer input shaft - just need longer bolts. They're about $275......for a hunk of flat metal with a hole in it!!

Just more room for flex etc in my opinion and if the custom bellhousing fits OK, thats the better option with bigger HP engines. So I'll suck it and see! Via a machine shop first for a bit of insurance and peace of mind.

Thanks for sharing your experience,
Cheers
AdrianXD
 
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