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L

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Discussion Starter #1
I am trying to change a waterpump in a 1984 E350.
It seems the threads need to be rethreaded on the two boltholes that go
into the engine block.

The bolts go through the timing chain cover.
The timing chain cover has to be removed right?

So the crankshaft pulley damper has to be removed with a gearpuller
right?

So i will need to drill with a 21/64 inch bit and then tap into the hole
and then rethread and then I will need to put the damper back on with an
80 pound torque right?

I will then need to reseal the timing chain gasket cover and reattach
the oil pan.

OK seems easy enough.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I am trying to change a waterpump in a 1984 E350.
> It seems the threads need to be rethreaded on the two boltholes that

go
> into the engine block.
>
> The bolts go through the timing chain cover.
> The timing chain cover has to be removed right?
>
> So the crankshaft pulley damper has to be removed with a gearpuller
> right?
>
> So i will need to drill with a 21/64 inch bit and then tap into the

hole
> and then rethread and then I will need to put the damper back on

with an
> 80 pound torque right?
>
> I will then need to reseal the timing chain gasket cover and

reattach
> the oil pan.
>
> OK seems easy enough.


If your going to remove all that you might as well replace the chain
and gear as well.
And install a sleeve on the damper, by know there is a groove wore in
it. sleeve is $5.

Whitelightning.
 
L

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Discussion Starter #3
"Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I am trying to change a waterpump in a 1984 E350.
> > It seems the threads need to be rethreaded on the two boltholes that

> go
> > into the engine block.
> >
> > The bolts go through the timing chain cover.
> > The timing chain cover has to be removed right?
> >
> > So the crankshaft pulley damper has to be removed with a gearpuller
> > right?
> >
> > So i will need to drill with a 21/64 inch bit and then tap into the

> hole
> > and then rethread and then I will need to put the damper back on

> with an
> > 80 pound torque right?
> >
> > I will then need to reseal the timing chain gasket cover and

> reattach
> > the oil pan.
> >
> > OK seems easy enough.

>
> If your going to remove all that you might as well replace the chain
> and gear as well.
> And install a sleeve on the damper, by know there is a groove wore in
> it. sleeve is $5.
>
> Whitelightning.


Thanks.

Engine was rebuilt maybe 20,000 miles ago.
How can I tell if the timing chain was replaced?
 
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Discussion Starter #4
ladeeda wrote:
> "Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>I am trying to change a waterpump in a 1984 E350.
>>>It seems the threads need to be rethreaded on the two boltholes that

>>
>>go
>>
>>>into the engine block.
>>>
>>>The bolts go through the timing chain cover.
>>>The timing chain cover has to be removed right?
>>>
>>>So the crankshaft pulley damper has to be removed with a gearpuller
>>>right?
>>>
>>>So i will need to drill with a 21/64 inch bit and then tap into the

>>
>>hole
>>
>>>and then rethread and then I will need to put the damper back on

>>
>>with an
>>
>>>80 pound torque right?
>>>
>>>I will then need to reseal the timing chain gasket cover and

>>
>>reattach
>>
>>>the oil pan.
>>>
>>>OK seems easy enough.

>>
>>If your going to remove all that you might as well replace the chain
>>and gear as well.
>>And install a sleeve on the damper, by know there is a groove wore in
>>it. sleeve is $5.
>>
>>Whitelightning.

>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Engine was rebuilt maybe 20,000 miles ago.
> How can I tell if the timing chain was replaced?
>
>
>

At 20K the chain and gears "should" be ok, as in nearly like new. There is a spec
for timing chain deflection but I don't know it offhand. With the timing cover off,
turn the crankshaft clockwise a bit (1/4 turn) to take up the slack. Grab the chain
between the gears to your left as you are looking at the motor. Move the chain side to
side. If more than about 1/8" of motion you will want to consider replacing it. More
than 1/4", replace it for sure. If the cam gear is all steel and the timing set is
that new, it's probably a non issue.
What happened to the threads? You're right about removing the timing cover, but how
did they get damaged in the first place. Those covers (assuming a 5.8L\351 engine)
develop corrosion in the through holes for 4 of the WP bolts. The corrosion spreads
and causes internal and external water leaks. If the assembler didn't clean the holes
or replace the cover you may have the problems occur again when you try to assemble
it. IIRC, the same thing hapens to the 460 timing covers, I'm not all that familiar
with them. On the small block Fords (302\351) it's common to replace an OEM timing
cover due to corrosion in the water pump bolt area when rebuilding. You may want to
consider a new timing cover if it wasn't done on your 20K rebuild. It could save
problems down the road.
 
L

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Discussion Starter #5
"Tom Adkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> ladeeda wrote:
> > "Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> >
> >>"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]
> >>
> >>>I am trying to change a waterpump in a 1984 E350.
> >>>It seems the threads need to be rethreaded on the two boltholes

that
> >>
> >>go
> >>
> >>>into the engine block.
> >>>
> >>>The bolts go through the timing chain cover.
> >>>The timing chain cover has to be removed right?
> >>>
> >>>So the crankshaft pulley damper has to be removed with a gearpuller
> >>>right?
> >>>
> >>>So i will need to drill with a 21/64 inch bit and then tap into the
> >>
> >>hole
> >>
> >>>and then rethread and then I will need to put the damper back on
> >>
> >>with an
> >>
> >>>80 pound torque right?
> >>>
> >>>I will then need to reseal the timing chain gasket cover and
> >>
> >>reattach
> >>
> >>>the oil pan.
> >>>
> >>>OK seems easy enough.
> >>
> >>If your going to remove all that you might as well replace the chain
> >>and gear as well.
> >>And install a sleeve on the damper, by know there is a groove wore

in
> >>it. sleeve is $5.
> >>
> >>Whitelightning.

> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Engine was rebuilt maybe 20,000 miles ago.
> > How can I tell if the timing chain was replaced?
> >
> >
> >

> At 20K the chain and gears "should" be ok, as in nearly like new.

There is a spec
> for timing chain deflection but I don't know it offhand. With the

timing cover off,
> turn the crankshaft clockwise a bit (1/4 turn) to take up the slack.

Grab the chain
> between the gears to your left as you are looking at the motor. Move

the chain side to
> side. If more than about 1/8" of motion you will want to consider

replacing it. More
> than 1/4", replace it for sure. If the cam gear is all steel and the

timing set is
> that new, it's probably a non issue.
> What happened to the threads? You're right about removing the timing

cover, but how
> did they get damaged in the first place. Those covers (assuming a

5.8L\351 engine)

I thought it would be easier. I do not know what I am doing. But the
threads appear to be dirty full of dust and whatever and I was not aware
of putting too much torque on it while reassembling. The bolts were
pretty hard to take out in the first place. If the tap was an inch
longer I would be able to clean the threads without haveing to drop the
oil pan and remove the harmonic balancer to get the cover off.
Maybe I could spray some PB blaster in there and try to clean the
remaining threads just enough to get this to hold together for a few
more miles so I can be better prepared.

> develop corrosion in the through holes for 4 of the WP bolts. The

corrosion spreads
> and causes internal and external water leaks. If the assembler didn't

clean the holes

Right. No leaks were visible that I saw but water was overheating
shooting out the pressure valve. Which I supected was the waterpump
because the coolant was not circulating in the radiator.

> or replace the cover you may have the problems occur again when you

try to assemble
> it. IIRC, the same thing hapens to the 460 timing covers, I'm not all

that familiar
> with them. On the small block Fords (302\351) it's common to replace

an OEM timing
> cover due to corrosion in the water pump bolt area when rebuilding.

You may want to
> consider a new timing cover if it wasn't done on your 20K rebuild. It

could save
> problems down the road.


It looks ok. I think the holes may have been clogged with gasket
sealant.

But I am suspecting the waterpump was never replaced. The lifetime
should be longer on a waterpump.

Thanks
 
C

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Discussion Starter #6
"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tom Adkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> ladeeda wrote:
>> > "Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]
>> >


>
> Right. No leaks were visible that I saw but water was overheating
> shooting out the pressure valve. Which I supected was the waterpump
> because the coolant was not circulating in the radiator.
>


That last statement leads me to question if you did indeed have a water pump
failure here...

Maybe it's just as simple as a stuck (closed) thermostat) or something as
serious as a head gasket leaking compression pressure into the coolant...

Most waterpump failures signal themselves with noise or leaks or both; not
the failure to circulate water.

Good Luck, Chuck
 
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Discussion Starter #7
If the tap was an inch
> longer I would be able to clean the threads without haveing to drop the
> oil pan and remove the harmonic balancer to get the cover off.


Several times I have welded a bolt on the end of a tap to get extra length.
PB Blaster or some other solvent/lubricant should be used when chasing the
threads.

Dave
 
L

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Discussion Starter #8
"c" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Tom Adkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> >> ladeeda wrote:
> >> > "Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]
> >> >

>
> >
> > Right. No leaks were visible that I saw but water was overheating
> > shooting out the pressure valve. Which I supected was the waterpump
> > because the coolant was not circulating in the radiator.
> >

>
> That last statement leads me to question if you did indeed have a

water pump
> failure here...


that would suck.

>
> Maybe it's just as simple as a stuck (closed) thermostat) or something

as

I replaced the thermostat

> serious as a head gasket leaking compression pressure into the

coolant...
>


Lets hope not since the engine was recently rebuilt.


> Most waterpump failures signal themselves with noise or leaks or both;

not
> the failure to circulate water.
>
> Good Luck, Chuck
>


You brought up some good points for me to check.

Like possible retirement.

thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
"Hairy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> If the tap was an inch
> > longer I would be able to clean the threads without haveing to drop

the
> > oil pan and remove the harmonic balancer to get the cover off.

>
> Several times I have welded a bolt on the end of a tap to get extra

length.
> PB Blaster or some other solvent/lubricant should be used when chasing

the
> threads.
>
> Dave
>
>


Sounds like a good idea.

Maybe I should learn how to weld. It would definately be a useful skill.

Right now I am trying to get the 15/16 bolt off of the crankshaft
pulley. To pull the harmonic balancer off. The crankshaft keeps spinning
and I cannot get a nail into the balancer to wedge it in. Maybe I should
use something else.

Or maybe just junk it.

the engine and the transmission is rebuilt. The tires are fairly new and
other things like a new starter.

I need a work vehicle to compete with illegal aliens.
 
F

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Discussion Starter #10
ladeeda wrote:
>
> Right now I am trying to get the 15/16 bolt off of the crankshaft
> pulley. To pull the harmonic balancer off. The crankshaft keeps spinning
> and I cannot get a nail into the balancer to wedge it in. Maybe I should
> use something else.


Borrow or rent an electric impact wrench. Looks like a big electric
drill. It's similar to the air wrenches they use for removing the lug
nuts on a wheel. It will make quick work of getting the crank bolt off.
It applies a lot of torque with a pulsating action which will loosen the
bolt before the pulley can start rotating. If you use the electric
wrench to install the crank bolt, don't over do it. It's easy to strip
threads with these tools. Another possibility is holding the pulley with
a strap wrench. This is a lever handle with a flexible band which wraps
around the pulley to hold it. I prefer the electric impact wrench. You
can find other uses for it if you buy one.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:52:48 -0500, "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote:


>Right now I am trying to get the 15/16 bolt off of the crankshaft
>pulley. To pull the harmonic balancer off. The crankshaft keeps spinning
>and I cannot get a nail into the balancer to wedge it in. Maybe I should
>use something else.


If it's a manual tranny, put it in reverse, engage the parking brake
and have at it.

Kinda neanderthal, but put a breaker bar with the appropriate sized
socket on the crank bolt and whack it with a hammer. The shock of the
hammer blows should pop it loose.. Just be careful the socket doesn't
pop off the bolt head and round off the corners.

If you have an impact wrench, that'll pop it loose for sure.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message news:[email protected]
> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:52:48 -0500, "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Right now I am trying to get the 15/16 bolt off of the crankshaft
> >pulley. To pull the harmonic balancer off. The crankshaft keeps

spinning
> >and I cannot get a nail into the balancer to wedge it in. Maybe I

should
> >use something else.

>
> If it's a manual tranny, put it in reverse, engage the parking brake
> and have at it.
>
> Kinda neanderthal, but put a breaker bar with the appropriate sized
> socket on the crank bolt and whack it with a hammer. The shock of the
> hammer blows should pop it loose.. Just be careful the socket doesn't
> pop off the bolt head and round off the corners.
>
> If you have an impact wrench, that'll pop it loose for sure.


I do have an impact wrench that I bought with a 150 gal compressor from
Sears. I have not used either once. The impact wrench was returned once.
I am in Florida and the seals melted sitting in the shed. The one they
replaced it with does not work either. The trigger spring is broken. The
compressor will not shut off automatic. $300 ripoff. What ever happened
to pride in America.

What I did do was took the security shield off the front part of the
tranny and put a 9/16 wrench on the spindle gear there is one bolt on it
and wedged it in. I used a cheater bar by extending the ratchet 2 foot
in length.
I got the bolt off but am now trying to determine if it needs to stay
off in order to remove the harmonic balancer. IT looks as if they are
two separate pieces. I put the bolt back on but am hoping I used an 80
pound torque..The Chilton manual was not complete in its directions.

I have to get this thing back on the road to compete with illegal
aliens.
or junk it.

Thanks both of you.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Ok got the balancer off

Got the timing chain cover off

got the driverside waterpump bolthole snapped off at the engine block.
The side has that 1/4 inch thick circumferance surrounding the hole.
It is the edge of the block.

It looks like this baby is retired.

Unless I can get JB weld to hold it together.

Naw. (MAybe) or liquid weld
 
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Discussion Starter #14
"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Ok got the balancer off
>
> Got the timing chain cover off
>
> got the driverside waterpump bolthole snapped off at the engine

block.
> The side has that 1/4 inch thick circumferance surrounding the hole.
> It is the edge of the block.
>
> It looks like this baby is retired.
>
> Unless I can get JB weld to hold it together.
>
> Naw. (MAybe) or liquid weld
>

Search the yellow pages for a wielder who makes house calls, have him
wield in the area that snapped off, grind it smooth,
drill and tap. Then use a liberal amount of anti seize on the threads
and length of the bolt before installing
it. Usually the bolt seizes in the timing cover and the head snaps
off. Late '70s to mid '80s Buick and Olds were bad about this as
well. Never liked the
design, long bolts going through an aluminum timing cover to hold
water pump on.

Whitelightning
 
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Discussion Starter #15
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:57:56 GMT, "Whitelightning"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Search the yellow pages for a wielder who makes house calls, have him
>wield in the area that snapped off, grind it smooth,
>drill and tap. Then use a liberal amount of anti seize on the threads
>and length of the bolt before installing
>it. Usually the bolt seizes in the timing cover and the head snaps
>off. Late '70s to mid '80s Buick and Olds were bad about this as
>well. Never liked the
>design, long bolts going through an aluminum timing cover to hold
>water pump on.


Pontiac engines from that era as well. Had it happen to me TWICE on
my old Firebird. (Small block 350 then big block 455) Had to
literally chisel the cast aluminum timing cover off the engire to get
at the bolts - needless to say the timing cover was destroyed both
times.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
"Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Ok got the balancer off
> >
> > Got the timing chain cover off
> >
> > got the driverside waterpump bolthole snapped off at the engine

> block.
> > The side has that 1/4 inch thick circumferance surrounding the hole.
> > It is the edge of the block.
> >
> > It looks like this baby is retired.
> >
> > Unless I can get JB weld to hold it together.
> >
> > Naw. (MAybe) or liquid weld
> >

> Search the yellow pages for a wielder who makes house calls, have him
> wield in the area that snapped off, grind it smooth,
> drill and tap. Then use a liberal amount of anti seize on the threads
> and length of the bolt before installing
> it. Usually the bolt seizes in the timing cover and the head snaps


Awesome
Great advice.

> off. Late '70s to mid '80s Buick and Olds were bad about this as
> well. Never liked the
> design, long bolts going through an aluminum timing cover to hold
> water pump on.


It is frustrating.

>
> Whitelightning


..
 
 
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Discussion Starter #17
"ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Whitelightning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "ladeeda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > Ok got the balancer off
>> >
>> > Got the timing chain cover off
>> >
>> > got the driverside waterpump bolthole snapped off at the engine

>> block.
>> > The side has that 1/4 inch thick circumferance surrounding the hole.
>> > It is the edge of the block.
>> >
>> > It looks like this baby is retired.
>> >
>> > Unless I can get JB weld to hold it together.
>> >
>> > Naw. (MAybe) or liquid weld
>> >

>> Search the yellow pages for a wielder who makes house calls, have him
>> wield in the area that snapped off, grind it smooth,
>> drill and tap. Then use a liberal amount of anti seize on the threads
>> and length of the bolt before installing
>> it. Usually the bolt seizes in the timing cover and the head snaps

>
> Awesome
> Great advice.
>
>> off. Late '70s to mid '80s Buick and Olds were bad about this as
>> well. Never liked the
>> design, long bolts going through an aluminum timing cover to hold
>> water pump on.

>
> It is frustrating.


Trust me buddy. we have all been in your shoes a time or two. You just
havent learned how to work on a car until you have broken and retapped a
bolt or two.. :D

>


>>
>> Whitelightning

>
> .
> 
 
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