Ford Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
do YOU have rubber?
Joined
·
2,357 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi again Windsor boyz.
Sorry if this has been at least partially covered before. A search didn’t turn up much. I was keen on some cam work. I’ve seen a few I6 people cheaply regrind their cams and easily (compared to the V8 anyway) install them. I know that some of you will say that heads and manifold are the things to do before a cam but I was hoping that this would be a lower cost mod at this point in time and being that both idle note and low RPM power increases are arguably best achieved with a cam I thought I’d look into that now. I don’t plan on any head work yet and my primary desired outcomes and requirements are

1. A beefier sounding idle and generally a better note through the rev range
2. Some torque and power increases in the low to mid range. (currently she’s a bit sluggish down low)
3. I want to use my standard valve springs (if at all possible).
4. Minimal cost

I emailed surecam here in Brisbane as I live close to them and I essentially itemised the above requirements. I’ve attached their reply here.

Thanks for your enquiry re: Ford EL V8. We would recomend using our HRZ76 profile to provide a good increase in mid range torque with sharper throttle response and a lopey idle. Cam Specs are Duration @ .050 camlift 212 degress, Valve lift with 1.7 rockers .486" Lobe Seperation 112 degrees.
If your roller rockers are adjustable there would be no problem to regrind your standard cam, if they are the non adjustable type longer pushrods could be used to compensate for the reduced base circle of the cam or a new Billet Camshaft could be used. It would also be adviseable to fit an adjustable timing set to ensure thst you can install the cam in the correct position.
To regrind your cam would be $330.00, New Billet cam $825.00, Pushrod Set if required $186.00, Multi Keyway adjustable timing set $99.00

The reason for this thread is to ask five questions:

1. Will I be safe with the 0.486” lift that surecam specify whilst using my standard valve springs. This figure accommodates my 1.7:1 rockers.
2. I’m only interested in the regrind option due to money. Hopefully a regrind and the extra bits it may require (eg longer pushrods) still works out cheaper than the billet. Does the price sound a little high? It only costs $150ish to regrind an I6 cam, is the V8 that much more work? I guess you’re paying for design time too but a few mates said they wouldn’t expect more than $200!
3. I have the FMS M 6564 A50 1.7:1 roller rockers and AFAIK they aren’t adjustable. Is this the case? The rockers aren’t shimmed so there’s no margin to accommodate smaller cam lobes. Can the valve train be shimmed somehow in the 302 EFI and would this be cheaper than the pushrod option?
4. The adjustable timing set is just a vernier cam gear is it not? I guess this is an advisable purchase, correct? Thoughts?
5. Has anyone had experience with the HRZ76 profile? Comments? How do the surecam specs “sound” 212 deg 50thou duration seems quite reasonable doesn’t it? I don’t have the stock cam specs so I can’t really comment myself.


Just to clarify things…. I haven’t decided on cam work yet, this is just research to determine whether or not I’d be happy going ahead with such a mod.


Thanks as always for your input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
mmmm Interesting dude, but I reckon you need to check to make sure the valve springs are up to the task.
 

·
known as tibbo
Joined
·
2,033 Posts
I always thought you flowed the heads first and got the cam to match,, not the other way round.. Be nterested to see the replies though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
well look at me lol still waiting for the heads....
 

·
known as tibbo
Joined
·
2,033 Posts
WHERE THE F*CK ARE THE PICTURES OF YOUR NEW WHEELS KEATS....

sorry for the hijack Paul but i thought a PM to 6pac would blow his 33 kps off the scale
 

·
a vile merchant
Joined
·
714 Posts
Ignition the stock cam really isn't that bad, especially with 1.7 rockers. It's your heads and intake manifold that are the major restrictions and changing the valve timing really won't get around that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
hahahahahahahahaha going to take some RIGHT NOW...... Also could you order me like 2 or 3 lifters and the BA 6 cyl Intake pipe set. Be right back..

6pAc
 

·
do YOU have rubber?
Joined
·
2,357 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
PigDog said:
Ignition the stock cam really isn't that bad, especially with 1.7 rockers. It's your heads and intake manifold that are the major restrictions and changing the valve timing really won't get around that.
What... even at low RPM?
 

·
a vile merchant
Joined
·
714 Posts
Fixing up the actual bottlenecks will increase torque and power at all RPM's. Unless you want to put a tow cam in it :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
OK sorry for the hijack paul, and sorry bout the bad quality, pic was taken by a logitech 400 doller web cam (not mine).

 

·
Two SC 61's = trouble
Joined
·
6,360 Posts
!:72 rockers is the way to go..With quality valve springs.The heavy/ thick ones in latter models are too hard..Imo get some soft-sh double springs..Grinding cams can change all sorts of geometry..Remember the std cam is a roller and it opens/ closses supper quick. Cannot even be compared to flat tappet cam...
 

·
345kw of V8 Windsor Power
Joined
·
2,784 Posts
I agree with PigDog here, leave the stock cam in there and just add the 1.72 rockers. For a stock to mild setup the stock cam is a good design and the cost involved with swapping it is not worth it for the little if any improvement.
 

·
do YOU have rubber?
Joined
·
2,357 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
ebxr8240 said:
!:72 rockers is the way to go..With quality valve springs.The heavy/ thick ones in latter models are too hard..Imo get some soft-sh double springs..Grinding cams can change all sorts of geometry..Remember the std cam is a roller and it opens/ closses supper quick. Cannot even be compared to flat tappet cam...
So you're saying the same as PigDog? That keeping the std profile is the way to go?

Having just installed the 1.7:1 rockers, I'm keen to keep them in there and want to know what will compliment them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
doing the higher ratio rockers as youve already done is essentially a cheap cam swap - you're getting more lift from your standard cam now, and essentially longer duration as well (the valves get to .050 lift earlier and close later essentially giving you a longer duration at .050).

I would agree that the next step should be free'er flowing heads... put the ~$500 you would spend on cam/vernier etc towards the heads :s4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
992 Posts
!Gn|T|0n said:
The reason for this thread is to ask five questions:

1. Will I be safe with the 0.486” lift that surecam specify whilst using my standard valve springs. This figure accommodates my 1.7:1 rockers.

If your current springs are up to spec (havent gone soft), they should be ok. If they are not, they will need replacing.

2. I’m only interested in the regrind option due to money. Hopefully a regrind and the extra bits it may require (eg longer pushrods) still works out cheaper than the billet. Does the price sound a little high? It only costs $150ish to regrind an I6 cam, is the V8 that much more work? I guess you’re paying for design time too but a few mates said they wouldn’t expect more than $200!

I presume it must be a roller cam. $835 is way too much for a cam. You can get a new one for around $500 in Aust - like a TFS from HPW, or cheaper if you import one.

3. I have the FMS M 6564 A50 1.7:1 roller rockers and AFAIK they aren’t adjustable. Is this the case? The rockers aren’t shimmed so there’s no margin to accommodate smaller cam lobes. Can the valve train be shimmed somehow in the 302 EFI and would this be cheaper than the pushrod option?

I'm not familair with that part number, but they are almost certainly non-adjustable. They will require the longer pushrods if used with a reground cam.

4. The adjustable timing set is just a vernier cam gear is it not? I guess this is an advisable purchase, correct? Thoughts?

Not vernier type, but multiple keyway.

5. Has anyone had experience with the HRZ76 profile? Comments? How do the surecam specs “sound” 212 deg 50thou duration seems quite reasonable doesn’t it? I don’t have the stock cam specs so I can’t really comment myself.

212 is a good number if you have air cond etc, and dont want to get pissed off driving it on the street.


Just to clarify things…. I haven’t decided on cam work yet, this is just research to determine whether or not I’d be happy going ahead with such a mod.


Thanks as always for your input.
...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I think with an intake, maf, injectors change & an el gt ecu Mr Sparkles elxr8 is putting out 160kw at the wheels. I think it had the standard cam & heads.
 
B

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Don't waste money pull the heads and get intimate with your die grinder, the satisfaction and performance are worth the agro of pulling the heads, also stock late efi "extractor" type pipes are a pretty lame version of headers (better than early casties though). Even better bet get some aftermarket ally heads and feel a big difference (trouble is then it's time for aftermarket intakes, pistons, etc etc, best quote ive heard is "you can't exceed the speed of your wallet").
 

·
do YOU have rubber?
Joined
·
2,357 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I went down to sure cam yesterday. I had a chat and found out a few things. Firstly the profile that they suggested would be the only reasonable choice for operation within the parameters of my standard computer. Secondly, with 155,000kays on the clock, new springs and retainers would set me back $220 to $250. Also, as I originally suspected and as many of you have reiterated, the inlet would seem to be the better bang for the buck here so I’ve decided to leave the standard cam where she is. Thanks for your input.


ps. I asked about the price and he said that they charge about $205 for the I6 regrind so I guess $330 for the 5.0 is just life.
 

·
a vile merchant
Joined
·
714 Posts
!Gn|T|0n said:
Firstly the profile that they suggested would be the only reasonable choice for operation within the parameters of my standard computer.
That sounds like they don't really know anything to me. As long as it can idle ok the EEC will eat up just about anything you'd like to throw at it. Check out corral.net and look at the amount of yanks running 11's or 12's still using a standard computer.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top