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Discussion Starter #1
Taken from our good friends at Motor mag...

XU6 - from $50,495 (no manual tranny? why??)
0-100km/h - 7.32sec
0-400m - 15:30
180kW @ 5000rpm, 380Nm @ 3200rpm

XR6 HP - from $37,775 (auto and manual the same)
0-100km/h - 7.88sec
0-400m - 15:33
164kW @ 5000rpm, 366Nm @ 3150rpm (manual tranny used for test)

No stats for the other supercharged Holden 6's

Based solely on performance, that's a lot of dough for a small performance advantage. Without a manual tranny in the XU6, I don't think there would be a lot of these being sold - unless someone really wanted a HSV badge and couldn't cough up the extra for the V8.

Comparatively, the XR6 HP stacks up pretty well. Handling with the live rear axle wouldn't be up to scratch, but the VCT+IRS isn't quite as quick over 400m (15.59sec) Bring on the turbo'd DOHC 6!
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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Auto isn't an issue for most people. It represents 95+% of the market. It's the real drivers like us that are going to be left out in the future as less and less manuals become available. We are virtually outcasts as it is. Holden is better than Ford for manuals overall at present.
 

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Aussie Pete said:
Auto isn't an issue for most people. It represents 95+% of the market. It's the real drivers like us that are going to be left out in the future as less and less manuals become available. We are virtually outcasts as it is. Holden is better than Ford for manuals overall at present.
Even though I'm not old enough to drive yet (yet I have;) I would allways want a manual. When/If I get my 6SPD Falcon GT (with 350kw from 5.8litres of beast) The joy of sticking it into the 6th gear would make my day. And refering to holdens 6spd box in the new HSV's my uncle has the SS and would prefer the old box, ever Motor Mag says it feels clumsy.
 

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Future XR Owner
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your right there Pete. Manuals will be slowly phased out to be replaced by your tiptronic style shift I guess. As long as they give us a good tipronic system, I'll be happy. The one on the T-SERIES is supposed to be a good system, but get rid of the buttons and give me a push/pull lever, ie Sequential.
 

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CEO - The BSR Group
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Seems to be the way things are headed. In the current Motor they test the new M3, and they reckon it's the first sequential box ever that's any good. They even went so far as to say that they would take this over a normal manual, since the only advantage offered by a traditional setup was the ability to heel and toe. Interesting stuff.
 

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The Xu6 comparison against the XR6 Hp isn't really fair.

Firstly the XU6 is a HSV model, you are basically buying the bodykit and the name. They basically are Clubsports, if you changed the badging.

A Commodore S verse XR6 Hp would be a better contest.

I still think ford has the most attractive six cylinder on offer tho, the XR6 VCT would be a dream car if it came with a 6 speeder and more power (say 220?), a brake option and the like. The 4.0 may be gruff, but in a sports car thats called charater, it has much more charater than the 3.8..

The Supercharged 3.8 is only avalible with a auto when supercharged to enhance reliablity. Plus it protects the V8. Besides, the sc 3.8 was designed more for Calais type jobs than executive and a body kit.

A auto only also reduces costs (if they wanted it with a auto anyway) and belive it or not people buy auto sports cars..

Look at the magna sport, they make auto fwd sports cars (pretty sporty too).

What does this mean for Ford? I think ford should pull there finger out and make a better XR6.

Start with the VCT engine, make it more powerful. Users choice between 4 speed tip auto or 6 speed manuel. Brake package, leather. Sell for $50k. People would buy it too.. Many companies don't allow V8's or forced inducted 6's for company cars. THis is proberly why the XR6 sells at the moment. (one reason anyway)

If you weren't allowed to have a V8 or forced 6 and had $50k what would you buy? 318 BMW? A cheap lexus?

Ford should definately offer a base model falcon with a 5 speeder. Also Why is the auto and manuel the same price? On the commodore you get a 6 speeder and bad auto but whats with Ford?
 

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IPhido said:
What does this mean for Ford? I think ford should pull there finger out and make a better XR6....
...Start with the VCT engine, make it more powerful....
I agree. I my opinion, Ford should do away with the XR6 HP(not that it's a bad car) and just have the VCT model,and I think price would have to be looked at (eg cheaper) to match the Commode S price. Hopefully this might not be a much of a problem if the stocky AV's end up with IRS as standard and things like VCT become more common place.


Aussie Pete said:
Auto isn't an issue for most people. It represents 95+% of the market. It's the real drivers like us that are going to be left out in the future as less and less manuals become available. We are virtually outcasts as it is. Holden is better than Ford for manuals overall at present.
It's a spew that there aren't many manuals out there for us people who actually like to DRIVE a car and not be just a steerer.
Yeh Pete, Holden definitely have an edge when it comes to specifying what you want in a car. eg transmission and engine variants.We can't even get a 5 speed manual Forte anymore can we?
Gone are the days when you'd see things like stocky XW/XY/XA Falcons with a 351 and toploader from factory.Now if you see a Forte it's guarenteed to be a 4.0L auto.
Geez I'd love my Ghia to be a manual.
Russell.
 

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As long as Ford doesn't go the "clutchless" manual I'm happy. Want to know what they are like to drive? Go to your nearest Mercedes dealer and look at the A class. No matter how good they make an auto nothing will beat a manual. Says he with 3/4 of his cars being auto!
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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BMW's SMG2 soundspretty good. But be aware, it is a manual with the help of electronics. As long as a car has a torque converter (ala Tiptronic type stuff) I won't ever be there. Clutch is the way to go!
 

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Ford is actually lucky that the blown V6s dont come in manual because they would be a fair bit quicker than the autos.

Ford has lost the plot in this area of the market IMO. Maybe a XR6 HP should be compared to a S Supercharged V6 but it would'nt win. That S is faster than the XU6 and consistantly records the better times due to its less weight. Its cheaper than an XR6 hp and includes traction control and IRS. I have seen these things beat XR6s easily in the real world. To rub salt in the wound the VCT is no faster than the HP if anything slower and dearer. If you put the VCT engine in the live axle HP your not going to have the best balanced car around so what else can you do? This would be the first area where a lighter IRS is needed. And a turbo. Yes the Falcon is better built but this does'nt win races. Bring on AV XR6!
 

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Any form of removing a manual gearbox and introducing a bullet proof auto is most welcome.

I had a drive of a new magna the other day and was very impressed with tranny. - thats all though!!!

Sorry Aussie Pete but i am in still 2 minds about changing to an Auto!
 

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The Third Power
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laminge said:
Any form of removing a manual gearbox and introducing a bullet proof auto is most welcome.

I had a drive of a new magna the other day and was very impressed with tranny. - thats all though!!!

Sorry Aussie Pete but i am in still 2 minds about changing to an Auto!
Laminge

Besides moving to a Hollinger :nuts: most of the big LS1 HP US
guys have moved to autos mainly TH400 or TH350 because of the clutch issue.

I have had my 4l60e rebuilt with Art Carr components and a 3200 stall TC and so far its holding up but if you move its gonna have to be bullet proof
 

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Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
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laminge said:
Sorry Aussie Pete but i am in still 2 minds about changing to an Auto!
You soft old man! There are clutch and box solutions out there which I think would be cost competitive with converting to an auto. Think of all the issues of converting - it's more than most people think!

DON'T DO IT LAMINGE! IT WILL DESTROY THAT GREAT CAR OF YOURS!!!!!!!!
 

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Wheels mag wasnt so possitive on the Sequential M3, they said while driving it easy you need to rev it over 3500Rpm or it gives an impression of clutch slip while changing gears. And theres also too many settings for it, 5 in Auto mode and 6 in Manual mode. Who the hell is going to use more than 2 of each, probably one of each once the novalty wears off.

Oh and for those people with EA Series II onwards Auto Falcons you can buy a kit for it so it works sequentially like the T-Series.
 
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