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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Having trouble with my 292 in my 1957 Ford.

Has a

4100 1.08 480cfm carburettor (rekitted)
New NOS 1962 distributor complete.
New Coil Bosch GT40R
New set of AC Delco spark plugs 84TS
New high tension ignition leads
New double acting original style fuel pump

Having trouble tuning engine, runs eratically when accelerating, idles roughly.

Have set up distributor as per manual. carb idle mixture screws 1 full turn out, float level o.k. , can vary timing 10 degrees either way and cant find happy medium.

Coil is getting hot but wont run when I connect the resistor, resistor measures 3 ohms resistance, specifications say 1.2 - 1.3 ohms.

Has anyone got any ideas. I am sure there is a logical test procedure, where to start and finish from one of you more experienced guys out there.

Regards,

Sam
 

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Sam1957 said:
Hi all,

Having trouble with my 292 in my 1957 Ford.

Has a

4100 1.08 480cfm carburettor (rekitted)
New NOS 1962 distributor complete.
New Coil Bosch GT40R
New set of AC Delco spark plugs 84TS
New high tension ignition leads
New double acting original style fuel pump

Having trouble tuning engine, runs eratically when accelerating, idles roughly.

Have set up distributor as per manual. carb idle mixture screws 1 full turn out, float level o.k. , can vary timing 10 degrees either way and cant find happy medium.

Coil is getting hot but wont run when I connect the resistor, resistor measures 3 ohms resistance, specifications say 1.2 - 1.3 ohms.

Has anyone got any ideas. I am sure there is a logical test procedure, where to start and finish from one of you more experienced guys out there.

Regards,

Sam
is the car on 6v or a 12 v model ?
is the coil the correct model for the boltage ?
to set ignition try about 6>8 deg initial and retard at a medium idle untill it slows then go for best idle for now
just a little advanced from here should be a sweet spot , are you sure the dizzy is running right points gap and dwell ? and the advance is working well ? with good springs which have not gone soft ?
does the accelerator pump work ok ?
pull the cleaner and look down the throat when the motor is NOT running and stab the throttle , you should see a squirt of petrol
now if the car is on 12v you may need to check the type of coil required as the gt40 maynot suit , ask at your local hotrod club as someone there is sure to know and good luck
try this and get back to us .
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi, and thanks for the prompt reply, much appreciated

The car is a 12 volt system, The coil is a 12 volt HP coil that fits all Ford V8's from 221 cube to 460 according to the local shop I bought it from. I got this one because it was to be used with the resistor which the 57 Ford has, They never had a listing for a Y block as they said it was too old.... I can only get the car to run without the resistor connected???? When run without it connected the coil gets too hot, which I believe is because it needs a resistor. The original ford resistor is fitted and measures 3 ohms resistance, the specification is 1.3 - 1.4 ohms, I cant work out what makes the resistance increase over time if it is an original item????? I am starting to think that I might get another resistor and try that before going to much further.

The distributor is a complete new NOS item I got for her. Its for a 1962 year Y block, and is the triangular shape alloy body llike the early 289 style units. I dont think that the later year unit would affect its performance, If anything should have a superior advance set up etc. Has new points, condensor, rotor and cap, points gap is 0.015.

I am unfamiliar with how to check dwell angle, Would you be so kind to advise me on this? What tool etc is required and procedure to check?

I have set the initial timing with the vacuum advance disconnected at 8 degrees roughly and then connected vacuum line. With timing light appears to be advancing.

The accelerator pump is working fine and is set on the longest stroke or winter setting. The vacuum secondary is also functioning o.k. But the whole things just eratic and unsmooth.

The plugs are gas fouling after about 15 minutes of running black and wet.

The more I type this I am thinking its resistor related and breaking down in the electrical circuit as the coil gets hotter....

Thanks again, and happy holidays,

Sam
 

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The resistor sounds like a good place to start, but is probably part of the problem. Plugs fouling sounds like a carb problem to me.

Not trying to be funny but to set or check dwell, you need a dwell meter. Usually a combination tach/dwell meter. In my opinion, it is just a more accurate way of setting the points.
The old GM dwell could be set while engine is running, but the Fords are set or adjusted while engine is cranked and obviously while dist. cap is removed.

Most of the time, in my limited experience, back in the day, with points out of adjustment... Either it wouldn't start or it would backfire through the carb.
2 cents here, hope it helps!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
O.K. Guys,

Here is where i am at now,

Found that the resistor was wired incorrectly, the positive coil wire was not connected at all to the start relay it was connected directly to the ignition switch "S" terminal.

I have run a new wire from the start relay to the trans neutral switch back out of neutral switch to start switch "S" terminal. Then opposite side of start relay out to the coil positive. From coil positive I have run a wire to the resistor, then out of resistorback to ignition switch "C" terminal.

I can now get engine to run with resistor connected and coil is not getting hot. So thats something. I have wired it up as per the electrical drawing in the 57 ford manual. Has not been this way for some time by the looks of the wiring loom, hence why I have probably never been able to get it to run with this new coil. It may have worked with the coil previously fitted but dont know that for sure as was not running when I purchased the vehicle.

Now I am wondering about how I have fitted the distributor??????

Can the distributor be out a tooth, or can it be installed anywhere providing that the rotor is aligned with No 1 when installed on the timing marks? I have installed back a couple of teeth. I did this as original distributor the vacuum advance contacted the manifold preventing proper timing adjustment.

This help is much appreciated guys, I am trying to get this old girl running while I am on holidays.

Thanks for the input,

Regards

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #6
1 More thing,

With the vacuum gauge installed the readings says "Late ignition timing" and sits around 15 inches of mercury, adjusting timing seems to not alter hence I am asking about distributor fitting.

Cheers

Sam
 

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It definately can be off a tooth or two. If it was mine I would want it to be right on the money. Normally I would get the #1 piston at the top on compression stroke, insert the dist. so when it is fully seated, the rotor points to #1 plug wire. As the dist. goes in it will turn some and get off, so you can start it about 1 wire over so it sets properly when seated. (I hope this makes sense)
You can set the timing correctly from there. Don't forget to remove and plug the vac. line when setting timing.
 

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thefonz said:
It definately can be off a tooth or two. If it was mine I would want it to be right on the money. Normally I would get the #1 piston at the top on compression stroke, insert the dist. so when it is fully seated, the rotor points to #1 plug wire. As the dist. goes in it will turn some and get off, so you can start it about 1 wire over so it sets properly when seated. (I hope this makes sense)
You can set the timing correctly from there. Don't forget to remove and plug the vac. line when setting timing.
I wouldn't stress to much about the timing , but as explained if you want set it off tdc with both valves slack , once started and at idle advance the dizzy until you hear it speed up and then when too advanced it will begin to hunt (back it of a little), the timing light will confirm what I say , best idle is very close to sweet timing , black plugs ?
sounds like the idle circuit is running rich , adjust the timing first then start the mixture screw at 1 1/4 turns out and adjust for best tidle again , if you have an gas meter drop it in the tail pipe , if it's still fouling plugs then you might need to kist and clean the carb if not done , soak the parts in cleaner over night and add new gskts . Good to hear the resistor is solved well done , anything else I can help with ?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Guys,

You are not going to beliieve this, but after having refitted the old carburettor to no avail, upteen distributor in and outs, timed at 6 degrees 8 degrees and even 10 degrees, check all valves for clearances again, compresioin tested, woke up every neighbour in the street,......

I have found the problem..........

I was just about to refit the old distributor as I had it running with it originally all very badly but thought hey give it a go, I pulled the cap off to get it ready for installation and noticed that the rotor was a different style..... I thought I would compare the two and my new old stock distributor rotor is about 2mm longer..... So fitted the old rotor and walaaa it runs like a dream.

Refitted the rekitted carburettor and she ran even better still, vacuum gauge back in the normal range 21 inches of mercury, adjust the timing and yes can hear advance and retard again, and vacuum gauge moves with it.

Shes a good thing, so was all happy gave her a good run and then the generator seized............

So thats tomorrows job.

Thanks everybody for the advice, I never even thought to look at the rotor as the distributor came complete, just shows how preconcieved thinking that wont be it gets you in trouble..... NOS not necessarily always good.........

Thanks again till next time, Hopefully I will be able to help someone else.

Sam.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey Fonz,

I checked my multi meter and it has a dwell measuring capability, I had a read up on dwell angle measurement, hooked up as it said to coil and cranked got a reading of 27, which is great if you know what to do next.

What reading should it have, and how is it then corrected if wrong.

Regards

Sam.
 

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I don't know what the dwell setting is for that year/engine. My book only goes back to 1964. Dwell adjustment is done by adjusting/setting the points.
When the point gap changes, the dwell angle changes. It's just more accurate using dwell meter, rather than a feeler gauge on the points.
Hope this all makes sense to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
O.K.

I have just talked to a friend and its spec is 26 - 28.5 degrees so its bang in the middle so should be fine. Thanks for your help again.

Regards,

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #14
More dramas,

Have just noticed that the old girl has two different ratio rocker arm assemblies left hand 1.54:1 ECG 6564 and right hand a 1.43:1 5751066....

So I guess this too will be affecting the inability to get her to run smooth....

Sam
 

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Sam1957 said:
More dramas,

Have just noticed that the old girl has two different ratio rocker arm assemblies left hand 1.54:1 ECG 6564 and right hand a 1.43:1 5751066....

So I guess this too will be affecting the inability to get her to run smooth....

Sam
Ya thunk :)

one bank will be running a lot more breathing than the other , once its soted it will still shake a little at idle but thats the nature of the beast , you should ry sitting in my I6 at idle :) ( I am losing fillings)
 

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Very interesting series. Yes, glad you got the 57 fixed and also glad yu hsared the experience. May happen to ohe of us or we may be able to suggest a simple check of the rotor for someone else.

Happy New Year,

TC
Austin, TX
 
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