[all4ford]

When the monaros win the lemans 24 hour than I spose we should care but they will never be recognised as something as great as GT40.

 

[ford.boy]

OOOOH touched a nerve, must be some truth to it.
Get real fella, just because he doesn't beleive there is no parity does that mean there is not?

You truely are an idiot.

For my denying something, adamantly, backing up another forum member and standing for what I beleive would make good racing, not the 15 lap+ farce that this event is and always has been, ruining bathurst's reputation; you say that there is truth to the fact that it's a completely level playing ground, the "monaro" has NO advantages nor disadvantages with the field of competitors, and the russellw is lying.

Parity is not something to have a grey area. You either have it or you don't, and two cars, smashing the rest of their competitor (at least where I come from) is not parity.

Now are you going to reply properly or just sit back and provoke?

 

[Cancerman]

Very certain. My point was, that the Mosler and I think the lambo had the speed to keep up with the monaro, but they did not have the reliability, nor the flawless drivers - and that is where I think the monaros clearly won.

And thats why I think they will come back next year and try to do better.

The fastest lap the monaro did was right at the end when Murph and Tander were duelling.

That the fastest lap when the 2 Monaros were duelling indicates that the Monaros were just cruising the whole way. If the Moslers ever did get close to them, then the Monaro would easily pull .6s on them a lap.

Many of the Mosler's reliability issues and driver errors, would probably have been caused by them having to push 10/10ths whereas the Monaros could drive with one hand out the window waving to the fans.

Either way, winning 2 years in a row, by a margin of many laps, and a 1,2 finish this year from 2 entrants does not sound like parity to me.

 

[tx3dude]

more rubber,downforce and power than a v8 supercar brock said it himself
parity,equality, whatever.......... :wtf: please, ive got a stitch. :rofl2:

 

[FordHawk]

With all your sources put together (FPV, PRO-DRIVE,and money) there is NO reason as to why Ford Australia can not enter a modified BA Falcon XR8/GT/GT-P to challenge the Monaro.

I'll give you one very good reason why Ford haven't, and most probably won't put an entrant in to go up against the "monaro"....money. Do you realise how much money it would take them to put an entrant in that series? I would much rather Ford spent their money on making a great car...not simply creating the image that it is a great and all-conquering car.

Seriously, the "monaro" IMO shouldn't be allowed simply in the interests of the category that it races....there was hardly any interest in the 24hr race from me because the result was a fore-gone conclusion. What is the use of a race that produces such little value because one car is so much better than the rest? This year's V8 Supercars series has been the best I have seen (remember I am only young) because it is so close.

Why allow one outfit to totally dominate the race? It seems to me as though the answer is because Holden sponsored the race, and telecast. This answer may be portrayed as being unfair to the Holden supporters on these forums, but what other explanation can you give me as to why Holden is allowed to run such a blatantly faster car? If it was detuned to bring it back to the pack then maybe it would be a worthwhile event. At present it has no credibility to anyone except the Holden faithful.

It is farcical that the "monaro" is allowed to race at it's present specs...how would you feel as a driver against it in a different car?

 

[Bluedriver]

I was there to experience the 24hr, it could be a fantastic event in the future if organised well and more competitive teams/cars in the top catergry but you have to start somewhere.
Too many things to comment on here but heres a couple :
1.The Monaros by the second lap were already pulling away, so obvious to see, coasting for 24hrs.
They are bloody awesome and good on you Holden for flying your flag any way you can.
2.The Mosler and Lambo (not Stokells one there) and the Beemer were never a chance unless major mishaps to the Monaros.
3.Procar to be a true 24hr why isnt Mercedes,Audi,Toyota,Jaguar,Mazda etc there ? Maybe they see a one horse race. I don't know I'm just a punter.

My 2cents worth

 

[XF 5.0 S]

The most frustating thing about this forum is sharing opinions with one eyed people.

If you open your second eye you will see both ours have always been open my friend......

And to all the others who disagree with the farce which is the Bathurst 24 HR, press the little red "off" button next time on your remotes and ignore the Nazi propoganda machine which is Holden/procar....if enough people ignore it, it will go away....

 

[Axeman82]

Oh no a "Ford Conspiracy" against the holden marketing campaign!!!

Both the EL and BA XR6T made exactly "427" laps and both finished on the same lap!!!

And also if we took out the Monaros then the next two were porsches who finished 8 sec apart!! And then they were SEVEN laps ahead of the next cars! Where's the parity in that? And then the Mosler was 12 laps ahead of the next porsche!!

Parity BAHH!!!

I'm not being serious... And this thread has degraded..

Dan..

 

[noel]

WWWHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just another case of holdens superior marketing,when will ford wake up and smell the roses.
Went to a local hill climb the other day,and the holden dealer had a big trailer there selling HRT stuff!
No ford gear to be seen.
Had our local(town of 10,000 people) xmas parade last friday,holden dealer had monaro,new clubbie etc.Ford dealer only had XR6 and 8,would have let them have GT had they asked!
Ford are 20 years behind when it comes to this.

 

[MaverickLS1]

nations cup is not a production series. hope that answers your question.

3.Nations Cup.
Group1. Anything goes so long as it fits into a parity window of performance determined by our technical group.The 427 monaro in nations Cup was engineered and conceived some 12 months before HSV announced a road version. CSV and Harrop Engineering are building road versions of the 7 litre Monaro with CSV selling their first road car to a customer some 3 weeks ago.

Having said that it is not a requirement in the PROCAR rules for a road going version of the race car. Nations Cup is about full on GT racing and nothing to do with production road cars except in silhouette form.There is not one car in the field that you can buy a road version of.

I love it how everyone has decided to ignore this post.

Seriously guys, this thread is based on pure jealousy.

 

[xacoupe]

Any body watched the "targa tasmania" on tv, or even been to that race :AAHHH:

Didnt Brocky have a couple of porsche's arse's on his plate :angel: until he ran out of petrol :wnc:

I have been to a few targas now and the level of competition is totally different to the Procar series. There are a lot of well to do rich kids that couldn't drive out of sight on a dark night. Also, more than the odd porsche was in front of brocky long before he ran outta petrol ! :bsr:

 

[xacoupe]

I love it how everyone has decided to ignore this post.

Seriously guys, this thread is based on pure jealousy.

umm.. I have seen nothing other than a post by this guy to indicate that it is anything but rubbish. I have not seen anything in the media or on the internet to back this up. I figure put up or shut up.
To say this thread is based on nothing but jealousy shows that a lot of holden supporters will support anything Holden no matter how unfair it is. It's still defending the indefensible.
I want someone to explain to me how a car you can't buy at all, despite some claims that have no evidence, is able to race against cars that are available, alebit in limited numbers, that are available to anyone with the cash.
To say that you cannot buy a GT3 is wrong, as is to say the Diablo isn't available.
GRM don't make cars... the first real holden that made it home was the 300kw GTS

 

[bystander]

umm.. I have seen nothing other than a post by this guy to indicate that it is anything but rubbish. I have not seen anything in the media or on the internet to back this up. I figure put up or shut up.
To say this thread is based on nothing but jealousy shows that a lot of holden supporters will support anything Holden no matter how unfair it is. It's still defending the indefensible.
I want someone to explain to me how a car you can't buy at all, despite some claims that have no evidence, is able to race against cars that are available, alebit in limited numbers, that are available to anyone with the cash.
To say that you cannot buy a GT3 is wrong, as is to say the Diablo isn't available.
GRM don't make cars... the first real holden that made it home was the 300kw GTS

I grabbed that Ross Palmer quote off performance forums, I believe it was orignally of the procar forums itself. Dont have time nor can i be bothered to look for it so feel free to continue calling me a liar if it suits you, i really dont care.

The reason why the monaro can race against production cars, and I stated this 4 or so times already in this thread alone is that there is different classes. As Ross says, anything goes in Group A. I think you guys need to direct your anger away from Holden for taking advantage of this marketing strategy and direct it towards Ford for failing to take up the challenge at this point.

I believe the comment Ross made about these cars not being available was more to the point that you cant buy the cars with the mods they have off the showroom floor...

Also I believe the VY and the VX both made it home before the GTS, and after the the other VX. Also note that the VY+ VX finished before the fords. Finally I have a ford in the driveway before anyone goes and calls me a Holden freak or whatever.

 

[Donut King]

Ahhh but the VY and VX were actually future tourers, not actual production vehicles I believe

 

[Cancerman]

nations cup is not a production series. hope that answers your question.

3.Nations Cup.
Group1. Anything goes so long as it fits into a parity window of performance determined by our technical group.

The point is that "parity window of performance" is exactly in the shape of a Monaro.

The 427 monaro in nations Cup was engineered and conceived some 12 months before HSV announced a road version. CSV and Harrop Engineering are building road versions of the 7 litre Monaro with CSV selling their first road car to a customer some 3 weeks ago.

The 7l Monaro CSV sells is nothing like the monster the 427 is. It's just a stroked Gen3 (not a C5R block) with different shocks and springs. Not like the abomination the 427 is with custom drivetrain, suspension configuration, etc. That's also irrelevant because it's not really a Holden and it isn't sold at any Holden dealership.

Having said that it is not a requirement in the PROCAR rules for a road going version of the race car. Nations Cup is about full on GT racing and nothing to do with production road cars except in silhouette form.There is not one car in the field that you can buy a road version of.

U can with some of them like the Porche GT3's and M3 GTR's. Others are track versions like the Diablo GTR, 360 GT and Mosler MT900R, which are not streetable but if u do ruck up to a Lamborghini/Ferarri dealership at the right time with enough cash, they will sell u one. If not the road version of those cars have exactly the same suspension configuration and same with the engine, except in lesser tune. You could pretty much order all the parts from the dealerships needed to upgrade the road version to the track version. They also have different names to the road going versions (eg. the GTR designation).

To my knowledge, the 427 Monaro "CV8" has NEVER been available for ANY amount of cash at ANY Holden dealer. The 427's C5R block, custom suspension components, Hollinger gearbox or 9" diff are also not listed in any Holden parts catalog, and the Holden dealerships won't order them in for u, whatever u pay them.

 

[bystander]

Ahhh but the VY and VX were actually future tourers, not actual production vehicles I believe

my bad. I was of the under standing that the VX that finished after the GTS was the only future tourer.

 

[Donut King]

my bad. I was of the under standing that the VX that finished after the GTS was the only future tourer.

Just checked, there were 3 VX/Y's finished ahead of the GTS 2 of those were future tourers (invites in class F), one of those was in class E.
So we were both kinda right lol

 

[tx3dude]

anything goes class eh? i have a car for next year but first i need $500k so i can widen the track, pump the guards, change the suspension, put in a FORD diff, a humungous back wing...dump in a 38 litre aeroplane engine and call it a ford laser .
then ford can say THEY BEAT THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN A LASER
fair??
id like to see a REAL monaro on the track next year any parts in the holden parts catalogue allowed(including hsv and csv) and if it can consistantly lap within a second of a gt3 rs ill hand you the right side of my manhood.

your showing your ignorance in defending this vehicle and all it stands for... its just a v8 supercar with the rules out the window up against the club spec cars from europe.
from GRM site
Here's the amazing technical data behind the amazing Holden Monaro racecar:

*7 litre (427 cublic inch) Alloy Gen 111 V8 Chev Engine (GRM Built)
*Hollinger 6 speed Sequential Gear Box
*GRM built chassis with Chrome Molly Roll Cage
*18 x 13 inch rear tyres and 18 x 11 front Dunlop tyres
*Ohlins shock absorbers
*9 inch differential
*GRM desgined Carbon/Kevlar aero package
*AP 6 piston mono block front calipers/4 piston mono block rear calipers. Front rotor is 375 x 35mm and rear 343 x 35mm
*120 litre aircraft spec fuel cell with Siamese dry brakes
*Motec on board engine and dash management system
*4 on board air jacks

 

[xageetee]

Ford can't enter a Falcon in the NC Series for a start cause its got too many doors.

As to the result on the weekend... what did anyone expect?

A V8 Supercar chassis with better brakes, suspension, wider tyres, and a alloy 7 litre motorsport engine should have won the 24Hr race by a hell of a lot more than 10 laps, they were coastinig - did anyone see the on-board telemetry on the Sunday coverage?
Putting along at 275km/h at about 5200 rpm - they would easily crack 300 odd k's at their mandated redline (5800rpm).
Keeping in mind that these motors pull well over 7500rpm for 24 Hrs at Le Mans in the C5R's you would not expect to have any failures at a much lower rpm range, unlike say a Ferrari/Lambo/Porche engine which has to scream to make comparable power from a much smaller capacity motor

A reliable pair of well prepared race cars run by a full time professional team, with a bunch a very experienced professional drivers

The Monaro is eligible for the series, so there's no point saying how its cheating - I'm sure someone would have protested by now don't you think.

Ross Palmer is doing the best he can with the people who are interested in actually putting a car on the track - bearing in mind that this isn't a cheap exercise - if Holden are willing to throw money at them, good on em for taking their motorsport seriously - Ford have found out the hard way that a hot and cold attitude just doesn't work in the long run.

The Monaro's suit Bathurst so much that if you levelled the playing there, the Monaro's would never win a race on any other track. Until someone puts in the effort to build another "eligible" Bathurst special, they will probably win it next year.

 

[TS50]

Ross Palmer is doing the best he can with the people who are interested in actually putting a car on the track - bearing in mind that this isn't a cheap exercise - if Holden are willing to throw money at them, good on em for taking their motorsport seriously - Ford have found out the hard way that a hot and cold attitude just doesn't work in the long run.

I agree with most of what you have to say (if not all of it) the only thing Mr Palmer will have to worry about is, will the other entrants say stuff entering the 24 Hour Race at Bathurst, the Monaros are too quick in the current guise, and therefore what hope of we of beating them. Why spend $200,000 upwards to enter a race you have almost a zilch chance of winning. The problem with the Monaro is that they would have been lucky to be running it at more than 7/10ths all day, whereas everyone else is running 9/10ths. Imagine the pace of those things if they had a real go

Just my humble opinion